1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Environmental change - What can we do?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Avenged7Fold, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,777

    Nuclear is about as realistic as human cryogenics. Its just happens to be cleaner in terms of pollution than the real dirty forms of energy production atm but it should certainly not seen as one of the safest. A nuclear incident is by far one of the worst outcomes for an energy production plant.

    If we need to bury the waste that lasts for thousands of years in a mountain then no it is not clean nor safe.
     
  2. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,609

    Solar is cyclic with demand in a lot of places but I would guess 500million to 1billion of the worlds highest demand consumers live where it is counter cyclic supply with demand. The increase in demand associated with decarbonisation isn’t being discussed but if I had to swap from gas to electricity for cooking heating and hot water the cost would be crippling and 10’s millions across the UK and the Northern Hemisphere would be in the same boat.

    Thermal storage is hideously capital and material intensive because of the physics of storage and regeneration.

    Generation on demand using carbon neutral solutions is the most straightforward and likely to succeed strategy but needs new nuclear generation technologies which are beyond the pale for the hair shirt brigade.
     
  3. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,864

    From the south of France and the whole of Spain, for example.
     
  4. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,609

    Good luck importing solar energy from Spain to cover December and January use in the UK. Peak demand in the UK is 4-8pm in the UK winter. Today the sunsets at 6-20pm in Cadiz, without doing the calcs I would suggest naff all generation from 5pm onwards and the array is producing 50% of its summer max. I’m sure the Spanish don’t mind turning their country into a solar collector for us, then of course we need the battery back up in case it’s overcast. The capital numbers and risk just don’t feel very healthy, although I’ve only tinkered in calculating bits of them. Whereas a centralised generation at modern molten salt fast reactors would deliver a highly reliable supply that could be flexed over the cycle to support short term storage.
     
  5. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 60,148

    Reasonable efficiency long distance transmission would be nice - though hopefully we wouldn't be stupid enough to become largely reliant on it given the security implications that any bad actor could disrupt it for significant impact.
     
  6. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,571

    This must be the biggest stumbling block in any plans to move Europe to 100% renewable energy. We can't do it without HVDC interconnects to other regions. But there are very few friendly, politically stable places that we can connect to.

    Large scale solar generation in the Sahara is a nice dream. But it will take a long period of peace in the region to make it possible to secure enough investment. As it stands, the only stable Saharan nation is Morocco. But even there, the best sites are in the Western Sahara region, where peace is tenuous.
     
  7. balls

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 1,148

    Location: Bath, Somerset

    Not if you also include the co2 emissions of the concrete that goes into construction of the plant as well as the storage of the spent rods
     
  8. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,864

    Over-unity and quantum energy.
     
  9. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,441

    Location: Canada

    That map pretty clearly points out why the UK shouldn't be fixated on solar as a large scale option of electricity generation, even before the question of peak generation vs peak demand come into it.

    The UK is an island, why continue to fight for a system that isn't optimum while the coastline surrounds it. Use what the UK has, rather than import it from thousands of miles away.

    As mentioned before Tidal power is definitely one option for a system to use as a base load. Tidal stream is still in it's infancy, but it's been shown to work, it works reliably for up to 20 hours a day and energy generation can be modelled so systems can be placed so they are optimum for average energy demand throughout the day.

    For example: https://newatlas.com/scotrenewables-sr200-tidal-stream-3gwh/55992/

    The only negative at the moment is it's more expensive than the other options, but that cost will almost certainly tumble, as it has for solar and wind.
     
  10. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,325

    I agree, which is why I talked about this in the larger context opf a global solution. Solar power should be a significant part of the global power supply, but within the UK it is liekly onyl to be a small aprt of a more varied green energy solution. Central Europe absolutely can supply significant amounts of solar energy, and import more solar energy form N. Africa, especially during winter, as I mentioned, projects are already under development to deliver this.

    What the UK lacks in Solar it makes up for in wind, wave and tidal resources. And as I said above, the UK may have to depend more on Nuclear than most other countries, but that doesn't prevent solar being part of the UK's energy solution, just a smaller piece than most countries. I beleive Solar PV in souther England is already grid parity
     
  11. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,571

    Interesting bit of news yesterday. The government has announced a consultation on a scheme to replace the solar feed-in tariff.

    If it goes ahead, the new scheme will use smart meters to provide live pricing, and allow both home owners and businesses to sell energy to the grid at the current market price. The scheme will be open to all forms of small-scale generation, rather than just solar.

    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/ne...romises-payments-for-exported-renewable-power
     
  12. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 16,356

    I think a truly global energy system would be a stabilising force, as all parties would want to keep it running, Solar on the equator, Tidal around coasts and Wind dotted about all connected by continental cable would make it so much easier to deal with future demands without it being the sole responsibility of any one country. It'd end energy poverty forever.

    Obviously it could still be the target of rogues, but if the World is united in defending it, it's largely irrelevant.
     
  13. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 5,882

    Location: La France

    Room temperature super-conduction would make the above a reality over-night. Iceland could power most of Northern Europe on her own.
     
  14. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,760

    Seams reasonable but it is much more risky for owners without battery backups. I know you will be protected then the price goes negative but that’s pretty rare. I think going forward solar will likely only be viable with battery backup.

    I wonder if the market rate ever goes above the rate you can buy in the dead of night on an Eco 7. That could make some interesting money making opportunities if you have enough battery storage. Top up overnight when it’s 5p per kWh and then sell it back to the grid between 4 and 6 when it’s mega expensive.

    I’m sure someone clever enough will be able to programme the batteries to dump most of its charge automatically to the grid if the price spikes. Even use machine learning to make sure it only sells what you will not need.
     
  15. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,477

    Location: Surrey

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46865204

    Fairly similar to my diet minus whey supplements. Not much meat or chicken but tbh i have probably 100-115g of chicken daily and very rarely red meat and quite happy with things.

    Maybe a push towards this sort of diet would be a good way to reduce the obesity problem too
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  16. 4K8KW10

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 4,864

    Beef and fish are the best. (chicken is tiring to me :o )

    But this doesn't look bad:
    1. Nuts - 50g a day
    2. Beans, chickpeas, lentils and other legumes - 75g a day
    3. Fish - 28g a day
    4. Eggs - 13g a day (so one and a bit a week)
    5. Meat - 14g a day of red meat and 29g a day of chicken
    6. Carbs - whole grains like bread and rice 232g a day and 50g a day of starchy vegetables
    7. Dairy - 250g - the equivalent of one glass of milk
    8. Vegetables -(300g) and fruit (200g)
    The diet has room for 31g of sugar and about 50g worth of oils like olive oil.
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 16,356

    wtf is 14 grams of meat? that seems like a single chunk to me?

    Though i guess you could save up the "allowance" for a single burger or something a week.
     
  18. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 10,535

    Location: Oxfordshire

    Yeah if you're single you can't even buy that amount of meat and egg, it comes in a pack and some of it will go off before you get to it.
     
  19. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,760

    Freeze it? You wouldn’t also eat that per day it’s what it would average to a week.

    So that 1 burger every 10ish days, 1 chicken breast every 4 days, 1 portion of fish every 4 days etc.

    The rest of it made up of fruit, veg, nuts and grain based foods.
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,760

    On the flip side this leaves a big hole in our energy security. As much as I advocate for renewables, this is a bit of a blow as nuclear does have a place and ultimately leaves us more reliant on fossil fuels (Aka Norway, Russia, USA and the Middle East) unless a viable solution is found.

    Nuclear plant in Anglesey suspended by Hitachi http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46900918