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Environmental change - What can we do?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Avenged7Fold, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,883

    They've worded it really badly.

    In a two week cycle:

    Red meat, once.
    Chicken, three times.
    Fish, three times.
    Three eggs.

    That leaves 17 meals a week comprised of bread or rice or legumes with vegetables.

    Sounds utterly miserable TBH. I could manage it, with about four times the amount of eggs and double the legumes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  2. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,523

    To what extent might this affect (Or already have affected) global climate?

    https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/c...ifting-by-40-miles-a-year-might-signal-pole-r

    Surely changes of the magnetic field will also affect the impact of solar wind and cosmic rays on the upper atmosphere.

    (Cant remember the name, but there was somebody some years ago claiming to be able to make reliable weather forecasts by monitoring cosmic rays and solar weather)
     
  3. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 11,142

    Location: Oxfordshire

    Another way of wording it:
    - The beans on toast diet.
     
  4. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,883

    You can have 75g of beans per day, which is less than 1/5th of a standard can.

    Definitely not the beans on toast diet. It's just about enough to have beans on toast every other day.

    I think even the vegans would find this miserable TBH. They tend to eat a lot more than 75g/day of beans, lentils, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  5. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,619

    Location: Surrey

    The diet does not take into account countries where their diets already have quite a low footprint.

    India for example is like 30-40% vegetarian at the moment, which is obviously not a small number of people. The diet does look a little sad in places but it isn't impossible and a half decent cook can make some incredible meals with it.

    I would also add that it does not include the possibility of meat replacements such as quorn - which obviously has a MANY times smaller land footprint, and over 10 times smaller carbon footprint to beef or over 4 times smaller than chicken.

    A tin of baked beans is only really half beans.
     
  6. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,883

    Fair point.

    Still works out to be one of the little kids cans (i.e. the size down from the half can) per day. Going to struggle to turn that in to a "beans on toast" diet.
     
  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,365

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Well I have done my bit this morning. Its a start.

    I cancelled my daily order of a slice of crispy bacon that the works canteen cooks for me daily and will no longer have bacon at breakfast. I will be replacing that with beans or an egg so its not all good, but I am thinking to try to ween myself off meat a bit.
    As someone who works in the tech part of food, if its the flavour people want then its quite easy to be able to supply quite strong flavour by extracting all the flavour from meat. You would be able to for example add Quorn for texture and say beef extract to give a beefy flavour.
    Quorn is a good example of this as they have started down that route. There is a massive amount that can be done, its just commercially right now there isn't enough demand to drive really strong innovation and development in this area.

    Sugar reduction is a good example. We (as do others in the industry) now produce molecules that enhance the sugar so you can use less for the same sweetness, along side others that give the texture that matches a high sugary drink. The issue again is that commercially this is new, it costs more to sweetness enhance and texture enhance than to simply add a load of sugar. Once that dynamic changes the other way I expect a massive increase in alternatives.

    With normal cooking most of the flavour of the key items is never realised. To get all the flavour from say a piece of beef you would need to chew if for ages. The only flavor is from what comes into contact with the taste receptors, the majority never does and hence is wasted.
     
  8. Thekwango

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 5, 2009

    Posts: 10,667

    Location: Northern Ireland

    can i have it?
     
  9. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,749

    Piers Corbyn, yes Jeremey’s brother, has long been a vocal adherent to solar based long term weather forecasting. He forecasts future weather based on solar behaviour based on historic solar activity. Normally the Mail or Express have a Piers Corbyn headline each winter.
     
  10. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

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    Posts: 5,865

  11. satchef1

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    I wonder if this will be enough to spur the Aussies in to cleaning up their country? Their fuel mix is one of the dirtiest among developed countries, mainly consisting of coal.
     
  12. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,865

    Some say that it is bad for the people to transform industries, because people lose money. The thing is that these people waste their times and efforts while doing something bad and meaningless.
    Just take these people and build new industries on the basis of cleanliness....... not primitive energy sources.
     
  13. UTmaniac

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    Location: Here

    Sounds like there's huge potential for another round of Flying Fox devastation with temps like Down Under, pretty sad seeing so many wild horses dead too in that photo posted above. Even though the world seems so small these days, it's easy to forget/ignore things not going on on your own metaphorical doorstep. :(

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-46859000
     
  14. Orionaut

    Soldato

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    Posts: 6,523

    Australia is a whole continant that has a population smaller than many global cities!

    Australias contribution towards global "Carbon Emissions" is so utterly trivial in the great scheme of things that I need to find a word that represents something that is several orders of magnitude smaller than "Utterly Trivial"!

    "Dirty Australia!" LoLLLL!

    :p
     
  15. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,179

    It’s insignificant but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be doing everything they can to lower it. Generally speaking they are an affluent population with a lot of wealth compared to significant parts of the word. They should be a world leader in renewables and clean energy as should we but the reality is very different.

    If the richest countries in the world don’t want to do it then how do you expect others to follow?

    Mining more coal isn’t the answer...
     
  16. satchef1

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    Posts: 3,883

    Trivial?

    In the 2015 CO2 league table (EU EDGAR database), only 13 countries produced more CO2 than Australia. Only 3 countries produced more CO2 per capita (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE). Their CO2 output per capita is three times larger than ours, two and a half times larger than China's, and nine times larger than India's...
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  17. Orionaut

    Soldato

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    per capita. PER CAPITA. PER CAPITA

    Total Population = smaller than Mexico city.....

    Total = Trivial, Utterly trivial!

    :rolleyes:

    Bearing in mind that if the entire Australian continent was wiped clean of humanity tomorrow it would make no difference at all to global emissions.

    Why the hell should they be expected to cripple their economy and standard of living in order to "Set a good role model"

    Its nonsense.
     
  18. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,883

    So you're ignoring the bit where I wrote that they're 14th overall then (i.e. in terms of absolute CO2 output)? Clearly the total is not trivial. With a population smaller than Mexico City, they produce as much CO2 as the whole of Mexico...

    Do we give the 181 countries that produce less CO2 than Australia a free pass as well? If so, then the burden for fixing the CO2 problem basically falls to the US, Germany, Japan, and a bunch of emerging economies with large, mostly poor, populations.

    To give a bit of perspective, Australia (24m citizens) outputs roughly 1/8th more CO2 than the UK (68 million citizens). The UK is doing its bit; we get cleaner every year. Why should Australia get a free pass when it outputs more CO2 than we do, with just over a third of the people? Worse, emissions in Australia are on an upward trend.

    To be on track to meet climate targets, the world's CO2 output needs to drop by 55% by 2030. For Australia, that basically just means reducing their emissions to what most developed countries would consider normal today. It's really not a huge ask. 0.03% of the world's population could deliver 1.25% of the required global reduction without doing anything that hasn't already been done elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  19. b0rn2sk8

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    Posts: 4,179

    Do please explain why it has to cripple their economy?

    Australia has some of THE most expensive electricity on the planet and a huge amount of it comes from coal (75%).

    https://www.aer.gov.au/wholesale-ma...generation-capacity-and-output-by-fuel-source

    Solar is an order of magnitude more viable there than it is here and a huge amount of their electricity demand is during the day to run air conditioning.

    The Tesla battery storage system they built (in under 100 days) has transformed the energy market in south Australia. They used a battery storage system to displace coal fired peak demand plants, the system managed to generated 1/3 of its cost in revenue within the first year while electricity costs for consumers. It can also turn on in milliseconds rather than minutes so has avoided numerous brown outs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-track-to-make-back-a-third-of-cost-in-a-year

    https://www.inverse.com/article/515...-saved-south-australia-a-huge-amount-of-money



    Renewable are terrible for the economy right....?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  20. 4K8KW10

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