Ethiopian Airlines flight to Nairobi crashes with 'no survivors' of 157 people aboard

Caporegime
Joined
29 Dec 2007
Posts
28,729
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
An Ethiopian Airlines flight from Addis Ababa to Nairobi has crashed, killing all 149 passengers and eight crew members on board. Flight ET 302, a Boeing 737 MAX 8 lost contact with air traffic controllers six minutes after take-off.

Citizens from 35 countries were on board the flight, which was likely carrying people to attend a major United Nations environmental conference in Nairobi. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said it had no information that Australians were on board the flight.

(Source).

This is newsworthy not just for the suddenness of the crash and the huge loss of life, but also because it involves the troubled Boeing 737 MAX.

Two 737 MAX 8s have now crashed within the past 6 months (the first was in Indonesia, October 2018). Both incidents involved newly delivered planes that failed at takeoff. There is evidence that the 737 MAX's Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System is to blame.

China has responded by ordering all Chinese airlines to temporarily ground their MAX 8s until further notice. This will impact a total of 96 planes. Ethiopian Airlines and Cayman Airways have followed suit.
 
Soldato
Joined
15 Mar 2010
Posts
10,592
Location
Bucks
At the end of the day this will still be pilot error. They may try and pin the blame on the aircraft but if its built to spec and the pilots just haven't been trained properly on its characteristics then it's still pilot error.

I guarantee the fleet being grounded by those airlines is also cover to get as many pilots back in the simulator to train them to spec. Airlines are trying to cover their asses and shoddy practices once again.
 
Associate
Joined
24 Oct 2013
Posts
213
I fly the Max. This issue has certainly gotten my attention.

Its worth pointing out that there is no evidence that I'm aware of at this early stage that points to the MCAS system in this latest accident.
There could be any number of reasons for what has happened, ingestion of a flock of birds into both engines for example. The airport the aircraft took off from has an altitude of 7500 feet I believe - this would have very significant performance implications which if not complied with could lead to such a loss.

None the less, the accident is eerily similar to the Lionair one. Regarding the Chinese grounding the aircraft, I would'nt be surprised if EASA (the european aviation agency) follow suit. However, the ongoing trade war between the US and China could be a factor here.

Either way, Boeing and the FAA, in my opinion, have some very serious questions to answer about the implementation of this MCAS system. And if it does turn out to be another issue related to MCAS - well, if you have Boeing stock, I'd dump it immediately.

Edit: Good grief, I just read post 2 - thanks for that well informed analysis.
 
Caporegime
Joined
25 Nov 2004
Posts
25,256
Location
On the road....
At the end of the day this will still be pilot error. They may try and pin the blame on the aircraft but if its built to spec and the pilots just haven't been trained properly on its characteristics then it's still pilot error.

I guarantee the fleet being grounded by those airlines is also cover to get as many pilots back in the simulator to train them to spec. Airlines are trying to cover their asses and shoddy practices once again.
In what expert knowledge do you base your guarantee? :rolleyes:

You seem to be disregarding any aspect of mechanical failure and / or design flaw, this is the second of this aircraft type to crash in 4 months.....
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
2,709
Location
South Yorkshire
At the end of the day this will still be pilot error. They may try and pin the blame on the aircraft but if its built to spec and the pilots just haven't been trained properly on its characteristics then it's still pilot error.

I guarantee the fleet being grounded by those airlines is also cover to get as many pilots back in the simulator to train them to spec. Airlines are trying to cover their asses and shoddy practices once again.

When are you flying out to Nigeria to advise all those helping piece together the set of events which led to this huge loss of life? I for one thank you for being so well informed on the production of Boeing aircraft, pilot training and aircraft investigation.
 
Soldato
Joined
15 Mar 2010
Posts
10,592
Location
Bucks
So dont make a thread then. Because 99% if not 100% of those posting are just giving there opinion nothing more.

Bit ridiculous to be honest. But that's fine I'm happy with my comment and when the news comes out il either eat my words or tell you all to get ******.

You all make out the the airlines dont have an agenda in this.. hilarious.
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Jan 2018
Posts
11,159
Location
Hampshire
In what expert knowledge do you base your guarantee? :rolleyes:

You seem to be disregarding any aspect of mechanical failure and / or design flaw, this is the second of this aircraft type to crash in 4 months.....

According to the BBC the first plane crash was casued by this..

'The anti-stall system repeatedly forced the plane's nose down, despite efforts by pilots to correct this, preliminary findings suggest. '

'After last October's crash, Boeing sent an emergency notice to airlines warning them of a problem with the anti-stall system.

Boeing is expected to release a software patch to the system to deal with this issue, according to Reuters'
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
25,525
Location
Huem
Let’s ditch the pilots and automate every flight as it’s always their fault when it goes wrong.

Straight outta r/iamverysmart post #2
 
Caporegime
Joined
25 Nov 2004
Posts
25,256
Location
On the road....
According to the BBC the first plane crash was casued by this..

'The anti-stall system repeatedly forced the plane's nose down, despite efforts by pilots to correct this, preliminary findings suggest. '

'After last October's crash, Boeing sent an emergency notice to airlines warning them of a problem with the anti-stall system.

Boeing is expected to release a software patch to the system to deal with this issue, according to Reuters'

Your stating speculation as fact, to quote the BBC...
The inquiry has not yet reached any final conclusions about the cause of the disaster.

Whilst the FAA have indeed issued a warning about the Angle of attack sensor they are specifically not saying this was the cause.

The Federal Aviation Authority said the sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain"
Could,not would.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47514289

I suggest you keep your powder dry until the cause of these two incidents has been professionally uncovered.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
28,095
Location
Surrey
At the end of the day this will still be pilot error. They may try and pin the blame on the aircraft but if its built to spec and the pilots just haven't been trained properly on its characteristics then it's still pilot error.

I guarantee the fleet being grounded by those airlines is also cover to get as many pilots back in the simulator to train them to spec. Airlines are trying to cover their asses and shoddy practices once again.
Would you mind hazarding a guess on MH370 too? Thanks :D
 
Soldato
Joined
15 Mar 2010
Posts
10,592
Location
Bucks
Let’s ditch the pilots and automate every flight as it’s always their fault when it goes wrong.

Straight outta r/iamverysmart post #2

Pilot error is the leading cause of commercial airline accidents, with close to 80% percent of accidents caused by pilot error, according to Boeing. The other 20% are mainly due to faulty equipment and unsafe, weather-related flying conditions.
 
Permabanned
Joined
13 Apr 2017
Posts
971
Location
scotland
Post 2 may have a point, modern flight crews have become complacent, reliant on technology and auto systems, when the system malfunctions their inability
to assess the situation, take action, and bring the plane under control has been highlighted.

The report on the crash of Air France 447 is highly critical of the actions [ or complete lack of ] of the crew:
  • the crew made inappropriate control inputs that destabilized the flight path;
  • the crew failed to follow appropriate procedure for loss of displayed airspeed information;
  • the crew were late in identifying and correcting the deviation from the flight path;
  • the crew lacked understanding of the approach to stall;
  • the crew failed to recognize the aircraft had stalled and consequently did not make inputs that would have made it possible to recover from the stall.[215]
Sometimes it's not the plane's fault.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
25,525
Location
Huem
Pilot error is the leading cause of commercial airline accidents, with close to 80% percent of accidents caused by pilot error, according to Boeing. The other 20% are mainly due to faulty equipment and unsafe, weather-related flying conditions.

I don't see anyone arguing the statistics, it's just you already seem certain on how THIS crash happened.
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Apr 2007
Posts
11,826
I fly the Max. This issue has certainly gotten my attention.

Its worth pointing out that there is no evidence that I'm aware of at this early stage that points to the MCAS system in this latest accident.
There could be any number of reasons for what has happened, ingestion of a flock of birds into both engines for example. The airport the aircraft took off from has an altitude of 7500 feet I believe - this would have very significant performance implications which if not complied with could lead to such a loss.

None the less, the accident is eerily similar to the Lionair one. Regarding the Chinese grounding the aircraft, I would'nt be surprised if EASA (the european aviation agency) follow suit. However, the ongoing trade war between the US and China could be a factor here.

Either way, Boeing and the FAA, in my opinion, have some very serious questions to answer about the implementation of this MCAS system. And if it does turn out to be another issue related to MCAS - well, if you have Boeing stock, I'd dump it immediately.

Edit: Good grief, I just read post 2 - thanks for that well informed analysis.
Not heard anything from EASA yet. Pretty sure we have some equipment on the Ethiopia 737s so we will be on the list.
 
Top Bottom