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Ethiopian Airlines flight to Nairobi crashes with 'no survivors' of 157 people aboard

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sankari, 11 Mar 2019.

  1. SS-89

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 13 May 2007

    Posts: 8,154

    Location: London

    So it turns out there has been a software fix in the works since the Lion Air crash...If this was the case why the hell wasn't the fleet grounded until this was fixed (and more importantly were airlines and pilots made completely aware of this)? Going to the extreme end of the spectrum but isn't there an argument this is in the realms of corporate manslaughter?

    The pilot of the ethiopian airlines flight was fairly experienced wasn't he? (8000 odd flight hours). I struggle to believe if they were well aware of the issues that they would succumb to the same mistakes if they could override the system.

    Anyway obviously facts will come out but not a great look for Boeing either way.
     
  2. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 21 Nov 2004

    Posts: 40,150

    Highly embarrassing for Boeing. I am sure airbus will be secretly enjoying the marketing aspect of this, I can see a lot of orders changing hands.
     
  3. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 28,478

    Slightly ironic that the shutdown potentially caused it.

    Either way, this is a class action of Epic proportions incoming, oof. For sure the operators will sue them, and anyone who knows those who have died will likely sue the operators...
     
    Last edited: 14 Mar 2019
  4. Minstadave

    Caporegime

    Joined: 8 Jan 2004

    Posts: 29,354

    Location: Rutland

    I’m not sure corporate manslaughter is extreme at all if it turns out firstly they’d not publiscised significant changes to the plane adequately and secondly had knowingly continued to let the planes fly with a potentially lethal flaw.
     
  5. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: 7 Aug 2003

    Posts: 42,724

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    Yes, depends on the specifics of US law but knowingly concealing a flaw like that that resulted in deaths would definitely be in the realm of corporate manslaughter.
     
  6. 28swphotography

    Perma Banned

    Joined: 29 Jan 2019

    Posts: 108

    Location: Midlands

    This whole thing, about the grounding of all 737 Max 8, aircraft, yes is sad, and RIP to the people whom lost their lives. However, one slight thing, that people have forgotten, x2 737 Max 8 Aircraft have crashed. How many 707's crashed, How many Avro Comet's Crashed, and they did not ban them.
     
  7. Lopéz

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 28,348

    Location: LE9/OTK

    I've not heard of an Avro Comet, but you cannot compare the first jet airliner made (the de Havilland Comet) from the 1950's with a brand new latest-gen airliner.
     
  8. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: 7 Aug 2003

    Posts: 42,724

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    Not sure of the 707s but once it was understood what went wrong with the De Havilland Comet, they were all removed from commercial service.
     
  9. Dis86

    Suspended

    Joined: 23 Dec 2011

    Posts: 28,576

    Location: Northern England

    You sure? I thought they modified the window design by putting rounded edges in and it resumed service.
     
  10. mattyy

    Gangster

    Joined: 3 Dec 2008

    Posts: 473

  11. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 21 Nov 2004

    Posts: 40,150

    This is a different era of flight where we have a better investigative system to determine what went wrong and a much more rigorous system in place for when it does. 2 brand new planes going down is both unusual and unacceptable.
     
  12. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

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    Location: Panting like a fiend

    IIRC once they had the second or third Comet go down they grounded them and didn't let them fly again until they knew what had happened, and part opf that investigation included basically testing one of the cabins to destruction to prove a theory, that information then saved Boeing etc from having the same issue - it was the first major pressurised jet passenger aircraft so the cause of the crash was relatively unknown to the industry.

    Also it's not a matter of how many have crashed, as the 707 has been in service for decades, it's the fact it's a new variant of an aircraft that has only been around for something like a year, having two crashes of what are effectively brand new aircraft (if they were cars they'd still have the "new car" smell), so most of the common causes of crashes (poor maintenance etc) are unlikely to be an issue.

    Any time there are multiple accidents of a specific model of aircraft in a short period of time, especially when the aircraft is new and the circumstances are very similar the aviation industry and regulators tend to get rather cautious because something may be very seriously wrong and they need to find out what it is.
     
  13. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: 7 Aug 2003

    Posts: 42,724

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    Yes, in new aircraft, they didn’t go back and modify the existing aircraft.

    Edit: It’s also worth noting that the window design wasn’t actually the cause but an urban myth. The cause of the stress concentrations that led to metal fatigue was due to punch riveting holes in the fuselage.
     
  14. Armageus

    Don

    Joined: 19 May 2012

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    Location: Spalding, Lincolnshire

  15. Dis86

    Suspended

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    Posts: 28,576

    Location: Northern England

    I remember watching a tv show on it years ago and there were clearly fractures stemming from the corners of the windows. Rivets would definitely do it though. BTW they did go back and modify the earlier models as well as introducing the mk 2.
     
  16. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: 7 Aug 2003

    Posts: 42,724

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    I stand correct re modifying the existing ones. Though stress concentrations were higher at the window corners they were shown to not be the initiating point - other aircraft of the era also had square windows. The big issue with punch riveting is that it resulted in uneven holes. If they had been drilled instead there was a good chance they would have been fine for the lifetime of the aircraft.
     
  17. Dis86

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    Wonder if they drilled the mk 2s? Can't find info on that. Only that they did increase the skin thickness.
     
  18. CaptainRAVE

    Man of Honour

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    Posts: 40,150

    Amazing and scary how little we knew back then and the effect round vs square windows can have.
     
  19. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 2 Aug 2012

    Posts: 7,813

    After the problems were resolved, Comet went on to be a very successful aircraft range. Dan-air continued to use them well into the 1970's (And I had an impression Freddie laker might have used some too but I may be wrong)

    And of course, the RAF Nimrods continued in service until 2011.

    Although arguably less practical compared with modern aircraft designs, the sculpted wings with the integral engines made Comet a far more visually attractive machine than most modern commercial aircraft.

    Modern aircraft may be technically superior but compared to the aircraft of the 50's and 60's they are fugly as sin! :(
     
  20. vanpeebles

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 22 Aug 2004

    Posts: 7,606

    Except they did know, ships had round ones :D

    And the best castles have rounded corners, not square edges.
     
    Last edited: 15 Mar 2019