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EU publishes details of how intel broke the law

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Interesting article... just a bit of it ;) I don't know if this is the right place to post it but I read in this forum many fanboys defending intel 'regarding this matter' so I guess it is OK to post it in this section (if no, please move it to the right section or delete it)

'Pulling no punches, the EC went on to explain exactly how Intel broke antitrust laws. Top of the list were a list of conditional rebates, which essentially allowed manufacturers, including Dell, NEC and Lenovo, to buy processors at a discount provided they didn't buy AMD processors.

The EC found that in February 2003 an internal Dell presentation outlined how Intel retaliation for selling AMD processors "could be severe and prolonged with impact to all LOBs [Lines of Business]". Similar stories were found elsewhere in other companies.

Intel rebates to HP from November 2002 to May 2005 were conditional on HP purchasing no less than 95 per cent of its processor for its business desktops from Intel. For NEC in a period from October 2002 to November 2005 Intel rebates were conditional on NEC purchasing no less than 80 per cent of its processors for its desktop and laptops from Intel. For Lenovo, the Intel rebate in 2007 was based on Lenovo purchasing all of its laptop processors
The EC also found evidence of naked restrictions. Some of the key points included Intel making payments to HP between November 2002 and May 2005 on the condition that HP would only sell AMD-based business desktops only to small and medium enterprises and only directly (not through distributors). Payments to Acer were on the condition that Acer would postpone the launch of an AMD-based laptop from September 2003 until January 2004. Payments to Lenovo were on the condition that Lenovo would postpone the launch of an AMD-based laptop from June 2006 until the end of 2006.

In addition to those points the EC also found that Intel concealed the details of these conditions, often verbally agreeing them.

HP stated that it "can confirm that Intel's inducements (in particular the block rebates) were a material factor in determining HP's agreement to the unwritten conditions. As a result (...) HP [Business desktop PC division] stayed at least 95 per cent aligned to Intel."

The reason for all of these charges, the EC found, was the growing threat that AMD's products represented to Intel. In many cases manufacturers were openly considering stocking more AMD-based computers.

The report outlines how in 2004 a Dell executive stated in an email to Intel that "AMD is a great threat to our business. Intel is increasingly uncompetitive to AMD which results in Dell being uncompetitive to [Dell competitors]. We have slower, hotter products that cost more across the board in the enterprise with no hope of closing the performance gap for 1-2 years."
 
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I don't know if this is the right place to post it but I read in this forum many fanboys defending intel so I guess it is OK to post it in this section
Hey luismenendez,

This is fairly old news although its good you made the post as some other folks may not be aware of all the Intel® shenanigans! . . . I'm not sure it helps you labeling anyone that likes or uses Intel® kit as an fanboy though (name calling never goes down well).

Intel® are a massive corporation and as such are prone to corrupt behaviour like nearly every other large business on the planet. They really should just concentrate on making top notch products and let the buyers choose whats right for them! :(

Obviously we are entering an age where Ethics are becoming more important so it's just a matter of time before all these shady wheelings and dealing become public knowledge and hopefully they all get their just desserts! :cool:
 
This sort of things is sickening to hear about, but not surprising.

Business always do whatever they can get away with(Amd would have probably done the same in their position.

Its just messed up that it took so long to come out and that its only up to the EC to expose it.

If Amd were allowed to be more of a competitor then we might have had improved speeds and prices(who knows?). And could it now be too late for Amd?
 
The EU, the most corrupt organisation in the world, fining a company for being corrupt. :rolleyes:

Well its a strange world we live in, for sure.

I wish Intel would show some bottle and tell them where to stick it, would they dare to ban all Intel products from Europe ? I doubt it but you never know with the EUSSR.
 
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If my local butcher offered me 25% off sausages on the condition that I bought all my sausages off him I would take him up on it, I don't see anything particularily immoral about the arrangement, or the need for a Government agency to interfere however peeved the other butchers might be.
 
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If my local butcher offered me 25% off sausages on the condition that I bought all my sausages off him I would take him up on it, I don't see anything particularily immoral about the arrangement, or the need for a Government agency to interfere however peeved the other butchers might be.

Not a bad analogy, but it needs to be put in the same context as Intel.

25% off is fine, but the butcher down the road was already selling his sausages 34% cheaper anyway. Plus his sausages were much tastier and cooked in half the time (that is in cpu talk, were faster and clocked better).

If at the time AMD had got a FAIR share of the market, they would have had more money to invest in R&D. Which could have meant They would still have the best cpu's (as they did then).

So you see, Government agency's absolutely need to get involved in these types of situation. Because if they don't, we end up having to buy off of companies that will rip us off, because they have a monopoly.
 
If my local butcher offered me 25% off sausages on the condition that I bought all my sausages off him I would take him up on it, I don't see anything particularily immoral about the arrangement
The difference is your local sausage supplier doesn't have a 75-80% global market share, and you're not in the business of selling those sausages on in the face of competition from other vendors. If that supplier threatened to make you less competitive by removing rebates, or not allowing you access to new product lines if you sold products from his competitor, you might find that a little immoral.
 
but still probably pennies for a company such as them
$1.44 billion is a sizeable fine even to a mammoth corporation like Intel.

Anyway, that stuff is just below the belt.

By either bribing or threatening financial penalties to their buyers they were forcing out AMD even if AMD had the better product at a better price.

The buyers had to do it because Intel was the vastly dominant company and any issues there would have screwed them over along with AMD.
 
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Not a bad analogy, but it needs to be put in the same context as Intel.

25% off is fine, but the butcher down the road was already selling his sausages 34% cheaper anyway. Plus his sausages were much tastier and cooked in half the time (that is in cpu talk, were faster and clocked better).

If at the time AMD had got a FAIR share of the market, they would have had more money to invest in R&D. Which could have meant They would still have the best cpu's (as they did then).

So you see, Government agency's absolutely need to get involved in these types of situation. Because if they don't, we end up having to buy off of companies that will rip us off, because they have a monopoly.

No, I'm sorry, but AMD did not have the best CPU's then because of anything they did, but because Intel tried to innovate and ran into unexpected problems which meant the potential of the new architecture was much lower than anticipated. (Netburst was the mis-step in question, which was the architecture that underpinned the P4, and was originally planned to hit 10ghz, because at that point they didn't know about the thermal limits of the chips and the problems of transistor leakage as a result because they'd never been an issue before)

AMD managed to achieve a 25% market share and then hit a wall because they simply didn't have the production capacity to produce the CPU's fast enough, 25% is hardly insignificant (and in most markets would be considered very good).

While Intel's behaviour is pretty shoddy, it is not to blame for AMD losing the performance crown, they only had it in the first place due to circumstances outside of their control.
 
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Hey luismenendez,

This is fairly old news although its good you made the post as some other folks may not be aware of all the Intel® shenanigans! . . . I'm not sure it helps you labeling anyone that likes or uses Intel® kit as an fanboy though (name calling never goes down well).

Intel® are a massive corporation and as such are prone to corrupt behaviour like nearly every other large business on the planet. They really should just concentrate on making top notch products and let the buyers choose whats right for them! :(

Obviously we are entering an age where Ethics are becoming more important so it's just a matter of time before all these shady wheelings and dealing become public knowledge and hopefully they all get their just desserts! :cool:

Hi, I just edit my post to avoid confusion, what I meant it was many intel fanboys defending intel regarding the EU fine saying that intel practices were normal in a competitive industry etc. I know it had been a lot of talking about it but till now we (at least me!) didn't know the exact grounds of the EU fine and i though it will be good to share this so hopefully doesn't happen again. We all know AMD had the best processor for a few years but they couldn't capitalised on it properly and their share of the market never went over more or less 30% likely for reasons like this. the processor market could be now like the current gfx market with all the benefits we are having now with high end gfx price even below the £200 (I know they are gfx more expensive like this) not like in the past when for £150 you could buy only a low performing gfx
 
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^
Fanboy...lol :D

Erm, no, someone with an actual understanding of the histories of CPU architecture (as well as experience using products) from both companies.

I can go through the architectures and the differences in detail if you really want... But there is nothing fanboyish about correcting misconceptions and revisionist history.

I owned AMD kit during much of this time, because it had the performance edge, but it didn't have it because AMD did better research...
 
Hi, I just edit my post to avoid confusion, what I meant it was many intel fanboys defending intel regarding the EU fine saying that intel practices were normal in a competitive industry etc. I know it had been a lot of talking about it but till now we (at least me!) didn't know the exact grounds of the EU fine and i though it will be good to share this so hopefully doesn't happen again. We all know AMD had the best processor for a few years but they couldn't capitalised on it properly and their share of the market never went over more or less 30% likely for reasons like this.
Honestly, labeling them as fanboys says more about you than them. On the whole the people defending Intel have done so out of a hatred of the EU commission, or because they're unable to comprehend the ramifications of Intel's anti-competitive practices, not because they're Intel fanboys.
 
Who gave the EU the authority to fine a US based company ?

Thats what I would like to know, would they dare to fine a Chinese company ?
 
Well who gets all the fine money? Surely it should goto AMD for the potential loss of Revenue?

IF not then if I was AMD I would be taking the next step, another court case for Intel.
 
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