Poll: F1 2022 - Pre-season testing and discussion

Who will win the 2022 Formula 1 constructor's title ?


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Caporegime
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Stranger things have happened. With the significant aero change one of the midfield teams may find a loophole like Brawn did in 2009.

Unlikely though.


It was a very junior Honda aerodynamicist in 2008 that found the loophole.

Just to be accurate
 
Caporegime
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It was a very junior Honda aerodynamicist in 2008 that found the loophole.

One hopes they weren't very junior for long.

Brawn became Merc, didn't they? I always find it weird that we don't treat F1 teams as being the same continuous entities when they get brought out. Tyrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc has been pretty successful overall. 11 WDCs, 10 WCCs.
 

EVH

EVH

Don
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Toto Wolff interviewed about Bottas leaving:



Back as Number 2 in 2023 once Lewis retires? Lol
Go watch the Bottas and Toto video (F1 channel on YouTube). This comment was very much said in jest.

It's actually pretty good. Toto admits that he stole one of Bottas' wins with team orders, so instead of writing "10" for the number of race wins on his helmet, he writes "10 + 1" :D
 
Associate
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Christian Horner is a gaslighting, disingenuous piece of excrement.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula...r-exclusive-interview-disappointing-mercedes/

What a horrid excuse for a human being.
I can never make my mind up if Horner is that much of an ass that he believes what he says. Or that much of an ass to say what he knows is BS.
The latter, he knows very well that Mercedes didn't make a tactical error. Utterly rancid excuse of a man which is why he fits in so well at Red Bull.
 
Caporegime
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One hopes they weren't very junior for long.

Brawn became Merc, didn't they? I always find it weird that we don't treat F1 teams as being the same continuous entities when they get brought out. Tyrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc has been pretty successful overall. 11 WDCs, 10 WCCs.


He remained junior up untill Honda pulled out of F1 at the end of 2008, what he did after I don't know.

Also to start with all the senior engineers ignored him saying his idea was silly.
But he persisted and even Ross eventually realised the guy was onto something, so Ross got Loic Bigois head of aero to develop it, knowing other teams were bound to have spotted the same loophole.

When it came to it was only Williams and Toyota who had also found the loophole.

And yes Honda F1 was bought out by a management buy out group who became, Brawn GP for $1.

When then sold to Mercedes it was valued in excess of $50 million, less than 9 months later.
 
Soldato
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One hopes they weren't very junior for long.

Brawn became Merc, didn't they? I always find it weird that we don't treat F1 teams as being the same continuous entities when they get brought out. Tyrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc has been pretty successful overall. 11 WDCs, 10 WCCs.

I always look at them like that. I always see Toro Rosso as Minardi and Aston Martin as Jordan. I bet if you look really deep there must be still some of them about.

I always thought you still have a little bit of their DNA. Toro Rosso always punches above its weight in a similar way to how Minardi did in 90's.
 

EVH

EVH

Don
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And yes Honda F1 was bought out by a management buy out group who became, Brawn GP for $1.
Technically they sold for $1, but the agreement was that Brawn would carry the debt and Honda would commit $100,000,000 to the running of the team.

Brawn had to go cap in hand to McLaren and ask them for special dispensation to use Mercedes engines. Martin Whitmarsh was the one to convince Mercedes to supply the team believing it to be a throwaway team, with no hope.

Apparently Ron Dennis never forgave Whitmarsh for it :D
 
Soldato
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Anyway, did you go to Spa last year, do you want compensation?

Taken from a pistonheads thread

'The wonderous spectacle in a soggy Belgium of a handful of laps behind the safety car had fans wanting a refund of their ticket price earlier this year. Spa has now responded with what they feel is adequate compensation.

All ticket holders will be entered into a draw to win one of 170 tickets for the next race.'
 
Soldato
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Anyway, did you go to Spa last year, do you want compensation?

Taken from a pistonheads thread

'The wonderous spectacle in a soggy Belgium of a handful of laps behind the safety car had fans wanting a refund of their ticket price earlier this year. Spa has now responded with what they feel is adequate compensation.

All ticket holders will be entered into a draw to win one of 170 tickets for the next race.'

What an absolute farce...Someone (FIA or Liberty who forced the "race" through) just needs to stump up the cash, was it even a sold out day because of fan restrictions? As I suspect Spa had insurance for refunds in the event of no race, but obviously now can't claim.
 
Soldato
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What an absolute farce...Someone (FIA or Liberty who forced the "race" through) just needs to stump up the cash, was it even a sold out day because of fan restrictions? As I suspect Spa had insurance for refunds in the event of no race, but obviously now can't claim.
its a joke really...

FIA need sacking
 
Soldato
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He remained junior up untill Honda pulled out of F1 at the end of 2008, what he did after I don't know.

Also to start with all the senior engineers ignored him saying his idea was silly.
But he persisted and even Ross eventually realised the guy was onto something, so Ross got Loic Bigois head of aero to develop it, knowing other teams were bound to have spotted the same loophole.

When it came to it was only Williams and Toyota who had also found the loophole.

And yes Honda F1 was bought out by a management buy out group who became, Brawn GP for $1.

When then sold to Mercedes it was valued in excess of $50 million, less than 9 months later.

The bit of the Brawn design that made it so quick was actually at the other end, and the outwash front wing concepts that they introduced are still used on the current cars. It's also one of the main reasons why the cars cannot follow closely and why next years aero rules basically stop that kind of wing from being designed.
 
Caporegime
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The bit of the Brawn design that made it so quick was actually at the other end, and the outwash front wing concepts that they introduced are still used on the current cars. It's also one of the main reasons why the cars cannot follow closely and why next years aero rules basically stop that kind of wing from being designed.


But that was not a brand new idea.

Go back to1997 and earlier when front wings were wider (before the new rules in 1998 narrowed the width, and made outwash vanes basically null and void,) and it was commonplace in F1.
It was also very commonplace in Indy car and Le Mans.

It was just the rules in 2009 allowed wider front wings again, so the old ideas were used again.

The double diffuser, was never used previously, was only allowed during 2009 thanks to the loophole (banned in following years) so was a brand new idea not a rehashed one, and was very definitely the single area that gave Brawn GP the most advantage in the first half of the year.
 
Soldato
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How were out wash front wings used at Le Mans when they don't race open wheel cars there?

As for the out wash front wing, every other team on the grid turned up to preseason testing with in wash designs so it wasn't exactly an obvious way forwards.
 

EVH

EVH

Don
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It's also why McLaren's 2009 car was garbage for the first half of the year (they kept plugging away at in-wash front wing concept). As soon as they changed, they developed a much more competitive car.

Bringing this back to F1 2022... I hope we see some nice innovation, it's always exciting seeing how the clever guys and girls navigate their way through the technical regulations to find the crazy loop holes and ideas :cool:
 
Soldato
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The way I see it, it was mainly the Mercedes that had trouble following no? Maybe this is going to backfire and just make it easier for Merc to overtake!
 
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