FAO Dashik or other ADI - observation tips please.

The Edge · 27 Oct 2007 at 11:05

Right, i've now failed two tests on silly observation "errors".

Yesterday i was done on my parralell park. If I had been the examiner looking to fail, i would have failed myself on car control becasue i set slightly too much gas and went back too quickly (w e were on a hill reversing up it). This meant i made my front offside check late, probably by about a second. I recieved a minor for the car control and serious for the "missing" observation. I did say i wasn't happy with the way i did it, but didn't ask if i could repeat the manoevre becasue i thought i'd salvaged it pretty well. Usually these things don't improve when they get off to a bad start!

Obviously i'm extemely disappointed, especially since i only got 5 other minors over the whole test. I (inadvertantly) obstructed a crossing, missed a mirror, must have missed a blindspot check on a pullaway and didn't react like a ninja on the emergancy stop.

I also got a minor on observation on my left hand reverse, but he said i made up for it later on in the manoevre.

So what i'm after is exactly when do they expect you to make these checks? Would it be a good idea to stop the car to make them? If you're not looking where you're going it's so easy to go off track and often not easy to get back on it!

I will ask my instructor too when i next see him, but obviously differant people have differant interpretations of requitrements and a second opinion would be helpful.

Thanks

Mark A · 27 Oct 2007 at 12:29

I'm not an ADI, but the way i did it was to just really take my time with it. The examiner wont mind you taking your time and just wants to make sure your a safe driver.

Check mirrors and all around the car before setting off to the car you'll be parallel parking. Once your slightly past the car you'll be using check all around to make sure its safe to start the maneuver. When safe slowly reverse back (looking through rear window) until your slightly past the car then stop again and check all around. Then carry out the reverse park how your instructor showed you making sure to take it very slow and keep checking around as your doing it. The key is going slow with good clutch control and constant observations, making sure to stop as soon as you see a car or pedestrian.

I got a minor for control as i nudged the curb slightly. As i was going really slowly i felt the curb immediately so without saying anything i drove back out and then put full lock on and reversed back in and it was fine then.

If you want advice from ADI's then there is a good forum on 2pass with a few ADI's in there.

Good luck for next time.

Shimmy · 27 Oct 2007 at 13:23

I passed my test just over a year ago now.

Although my obvservation skills are more based on rear view and turning my neck whilst normal driving, I still remember what I had to do to pass.

Learning to pass your test, is different to learning to drive imo.

What I had instilled into me, was to take your time, especially in manoeuvres. Afterall, the actual driving only takes 40 mins and goes past very quickly. During manoeuvres take your time, have the car very slow when checking mirrors or even stop. You need to be checking like every 5 seconds of your manoeuvre, at least I had to as my examiner was really anal about it (was a woman who had a reputation to fail drivers for observation, and rarely passes people first time). Like you've said, start again if you feel you fudged up.

All of this was quite difficult to do for me, as when I drive normally I do things a lot quicker but imo safely too. I still got 4 minors, all for observation, 2 during manoeuvures (yes I had several) and 2 whilst driving, like I said she was anal

.

That's all I can remember for now.

Jonny ///M · 27 Oct 2007 at 14:23

For the paralel park just keep it really slow(something i dont do). Did you set your gas with the handbrake on and shot back when you took it off? I got told off for missing the TWO checks of the blindspot as you pull off....one before you move and one as you pull out more.

The Edge · 27 Oct 2007 at 21:01

I was reversing uphill and set slightly too much gas, let the handrake off and went back a little too quickly.

Jonny ///M · 27 Oct 2007 at 21:13

The Edge said:
I was reversing uphill and set slightly too much gas, let the handrake off and went back a little too quickly.

Do you even need to use gas though? Most of the time the astra 1.6 i drive can hold itself on the clutch alone...then i let the handbrake off...bring the clutch up a bit adding gas if it starts to judder slightly.

The Edge · 27 Oct 2007 at 21:16

it's a 1.2 corsa. yes it needs a blip

Mark A · 27 Oct 2007 at 21:41

I'm sure you'll be fine next time round, sounds like you know what to do now but nerves got to you on the day.

The Edge · 27 Oct 2007 at 21:49

Possibly, i don't ever remember reversing uphill before so that won't have helped. In my car i'd have been OK as it's a diesel and i could have done ot on clutch only.

Mark A · 27 Oct 2007 at 22:15

Yeah I'm finding it hard to get used to my petrol car after learning in a diesel. If your having some lessons before you retake your test get your instructor to show you how to do it. Saying that though you don't usually go on the same route twice so you could be doing it in a total different place if at all next time

.

Clarkey · 27 Oct 2007 at 22:26

Mark A said:
Yeah I'm finding it hard to get used to my petrol car after learning in a diesel. If your having some lessons before you retake your test get your instructor to show you how to do it. Saying that though you don't usually go on the same route twice so you could be doing it in a total different place if at all next time .

what does the route have to do with the technique, my test route took me where I had never been in my life and didn't cause me any problems at all, just apply the basic techniques and you won't go wrong.

Mark A · 27 Oct 2007 at 23:11

Clarkey said:
what does the route have to do with the technique, my test route took me where I had never been in my life and didn't cause me any problems at all, just apply the basic techniques and you won't go wrong.

What i mean is next time he may well be on a flat area to do the reverse park, which would make it a bit easier.

Dashik · 27 Oct 2007 at 23:45

Mark A said:
I'm not an ADI, but the way i did it was to just really take my time with it. The examiner wont mind you taking your time and just wants to make sure your a safe driver.

Check mirrors and all around the car before setting off to the car you'll be parallel parking. Once your slightly past the car you'll be using check all around to make sure its safe to start the maneuver. When safe slowly reverse back (looking through rear window) until your slightly past the car then stop again and check all around. Then carry out the reverse park how your instructor showed you making sure to take it very slow and keep checking around as your doing it. The key is going slow with good clutch control and constant observations, making sure to stop as soon as you see a car or pedestrian.

I got a minor for control as i nudged the curb slightly. As i was going really slowly i felt the curb immediately so without saying anything i drove back out and then put full lock on and reversed back in and it was fine then.

If you want advice from ADI's then there is a good forum on 2pass with a few ADI's in there.

Good luck for next time.

Good stuff mark. Pretty much what I would have said

Nice to see some poeple dont forget everything there taught.

Once you have passed 45 degrees and have straightened up heading for the kerb on the reverse park you no longer need to stop if anyones comeing as you are reversing out of there way and as such are becoming less of an obsruction

Only thing to add is that its worth memorising the following.

P = Prepare

O = Observe

M = Move

Thats the routine to move off and if you say it then your more likly to remember what kind of start it is and where to look and move when its safe.

On both the parralel park and the left reverse I teach to stop and apply the handbrake at the end of the 1st straigh reverse. Just past the rear of the target car/ at point of turn for left reverse.

The routine to move off is POM so that hopefully sorts the observations there and then just before the car is at 45 degrees in the road I get the pupils to check their right blindspot again to hopefully catch anything they have not yet seen.

If you want a definitive guide then 'Driving the Essential Skills' is a very good read and applies to both novice and EXPERIANCED drivers

Hope that helps.

Dashik · 27 Oct 2007 at 23:51

Oh and if you need a quick chat pm me a mobile or house number and i'll oblige sometime tommorrow afternoon. No charge

Clarkey · 28 Oct 2007 at 00:01

fair enough, but if you can't do a nice smooth hill start then you aren't ready for the road. When I started learning I spent a week or more just starting and stopping on the steepest hills in the area, balancing the throttle and clutch became second nature quite quickly from doing this. Like anything, practice makes perfect, this is why I would always advise a learner to drive their own car as much as possible. You get up to speed pretty quick by jumping in at the deep end imo. Soon learn to judge gaps for instance by heading out to the busiest junctions/roundabouts in town on a friday rush hour. By doing this you gain confidence quickly, then when you go out with your ADI hang on his/her every word and learn form it, don't have to be told the same thing twice. This is how I can pass first time no problems in unfamiliar territory.
If you can drive then you will be fine but just remember that routine that your ADI taught you. It is imperative that you do all the OTT mirror checks and do them in the correct order, make that unnecessary use of the handbrake when stopped. Remember when reversing left hand down means look over your left shoulder and vice versa.

Dashik · 28 Oct 2007 at 00:11

Clarkey said:
fair enough, but if you can't do a nice smooth hill start then you aren't ready for the road. When I started learning I spent a week or more just starting and stopping on the steepest hills in the area, balancing the throttle and clutch became second nature quite quickly from doing this. Like anything, practice makes perfect, this is why I would always advise a learner to drive their own car as much as possible. You get up to speed pretty quick by jumping in at the deep end imo. Soon learn to judge gaps for instance by heading out to the busiest junctions/roundabouts in town on a friday rush hour. By doing this you gain confidence quickly, then when you go out with your ADI hang on his/her every word and learn form it, don't have to be told the same thing twice. This is how I can pass first time no problems in unfamiliar territory.
If you can drive then you will be fine but just remember that routine that your ADI taught you. It is imperative that you do all the OTT mirror checks and do them in the correct order, make that unnecessary use of the handbrake when stopped. Remember when reversing left hand down means look over your left shoulder and vice versa.

Everything was fine until you said OTT mirror checks. This always makes me laugh, Why do you think we teach pupils to use their mirrors? Its because they need to as do you. If you dont use your mirrors properly then while you might be driving fine otherwise, you might not spot the other idiot thats about to kill you. So just for the fun of it tell me when an ADI reccommends checking a mirror that you reackon is unnessecary and why please?

If the mirrors are not useful why are they there? You could save a few quid and not have them fitted by the manufacturer.......

Also I dont stop and apply the handbrake during a reverse park or do a left/right reverse or a turn in the road unless its required due to traffic/road conditions (hill etc) as I have more experiance and am unlikely to stall or forget to look. Note I said unlikely not I'm perfect.

Its a neccesary use of the handbrake for the pupil as it does 2 things. One it slows them down a little and gives them more time to think and not panic. Two, if used with POM then hopefully they will remember to start proprely and look and check its safe to move.

Clarkey · 28 Oct 2007 at 00:35

OK, one example. Approaching a roundabout, no junctions on the road for a mile before the roundabout, you have not passed any cyclists for a mile and there is nowhere they could have joined the road from while you weren't looking. Even though you are going straight on at the roundabout and won't be cutting anything to your left up anyway, you would be required to check the left door mirror even though you have already determined quite definitively that there is nothing there. Tbh rear view mirror checks in this scenario are only really useful to determine if there is anything behind that would ram you were you to brake harshly, even then it would be them at fault but nobody wants the back of their car stoved in.

The Edge · 28 Oct 2007 at 08:27

Dashik said:
snip

Thanks Dashik, i'll stop the car next time

Incidentally i took this test at a differant centre where i don't know the roads at all and i actually think it helped. My instructor showed me the more difficult junctions in the lesson before the test (The hardest one is actually getting out of the centre!) but because i didn't know the roads i had to be more observant of signage and becasue i didn't know the junctions i didn't approach them too fast for the examiner (I had a couple of minors for this in my other tests).

cyclopopcicle · 28 Oct 2007 at 08:40

Clarkey said:
OK, one example. Approaching a roundabout, no junctions on the road for a mile before the roundabout, you have not passed any cyclists for a mile and there is nowhere they could have joined the road from while you weren't looking. Even though you are going straight on at the roundabout and won't be cutting anything to your left up anyway, you would be required to check the left door mirror even though you have already determined quite definitively that there is nothing there. Tbh rear view mirror checks in this scenario are only really useful to determine if there is anything behind that would ram you were you to brake harshly, even then it would be them at fault but nobody wants the back of their car stoved in.

so in other words a mirror check was necessary to check no one was behind you in case you had to stop suddenly?

its a good habit to check mirrors in pairs, its all about being as safe as possible, and lets face it how long does a mirror check take? is it worth not checking for that small amount of time?

Dashik · 28 Oct 2007 at 17:54

Clarkey said:
OK, one example. Approaching a roundabout, no junctions on the road for a mile before the roundabout, you have not passed any cyclists for a mile and there is nowhere they could have joined the road from while you weren't looking. Even though you are going straight on at the roundabout and won't be cutting anything to your left up anyway, you would be required to check the left door mirror even though you have already determined quite definitively that there is nothing there. Tbh rear view mirror checks in this scenario are only really useful to determine if there is anything behind that would ram you were you to brake harshly, even then it would be them at fault but nobody wants the back of their car stoved in.

Rubbish. Things change and as some here will only be too happy to point out they exceed the speed limit, rightly or wrongly, and idiots do the daftest of things. So what if a motorcyclist was firing it up the inside to beat you onto the roundabout and you did not check the left mirror?

Oh and as for it being there fault if the hit you from behind, how would you spend the insurance when your dead? You were in the right but still dead