FAO Penski and other mod-heads

[volospian]

OK, I'm still in two minds whether to spend my cash on a nice modern powerful saloon, like an S-Type R, M5, E55AMG or whatever, but I really do like the thought of a highly modded scimitar. With some work (pas, electric heated seats, central locking and so on) it still ticks all the boxes for luxury, but has that lovely classic look.

However, I'm wondering how much stuffing a 400hp SBF in the front of a scimitar would affect the car. Cars are generally built around the engine, the scim was designed to have a 3.0 V6 in the front putting out, what 140hp?

As far as I can tell, the front end is similar to my GT6C, based on the TR models, with pita trunnions and so on. The rear end I'll replace with the Jag IRS if it can stand the power.

However, I'm still concerned that much power could be too much for the chassis. I don't want to spend a huge amount of money and then regret it when the car becomes virtually undriveable because of the power or handles so badly the extra power is totally watsed.

It will be an everyday car instead of the Jag or Beemer.

So, do you think it'll survive the transplant, or will it be all too much for a 30 odd year old design?

I haven't rulled out a blower yet, so power could be around 600hp.

I'm beginning to think this may be too much work to get it right and my cash would be better spent on the modern car that is much better equipped to take 400+ horses.

 

[volospian]

*Shrugs*

Is that picture supposed to show me the error of my ways?

Sorry Mr Fox. That blue thing doesn't do anything for me at all. Maybe if it was a carbon black one, but I think the M5 looks a bit lardy myself.

This looks better, if you ask me

 

[volospian]

There's just no helping some folks

No, I kind of agree with you in a way. The head says "modern" (maybe not the M5, not all that keen on it, probably more likely the S-Type R, but that's personal preference, there's no denying the quality of the M5) but my heart just doesn't get on with modern rides. I don't own a car less than 33 years old and when I did I just found them all so souless

I want to want to get into my car, not have a powerful car but not have the desire to drive it.

 

[volospian]

The M5 is an absolutely awesome car. If you can look at that picture yet it does nothing for you, but that old Reliant thing does, then I guess what you should do is clear.

Buy the Reliant - IMHO its the only car you'd be truely happy with rather than simply thinking 'This is nice'

But as we both know, a picture is just a picture, it has nothing to do with driving the car. Now I could test the M5 and say "Looks a bit uninspiring to me, but goes like and stink and is generally fantastic" but I can't then get into a custom 600hp scimitar and compare it.

I'm not talking handling as such, just the overall buzz from driving it. A lot of modern cars, for me, remove that buzz. You simply feel too detached from the experience. And besides, I'm more of a straight line speed/power person myself. I'd rather blat down the quarter mile at Santa Pod with my ears meeting behind my head from the acceleration than race around my local track (donnington park, by the way).

If that was my intention I wouldn't be buying a heavy saloon anyway.

My question to those with more knowledge about modding than me is "Will the scim be driveable with those mods?"

The M5 could end up being the best buy, but I won't know that until I have spent the money on the scimitar. It's a dilemma.

I'd only be happy with the scim if it meets expectations, but if that car is not pysically capable of taking the mods, then my money would be better spent on an M5.

The desision is easy for you to make, as you already consider the M5 to tick every box. For me it leaves some boxes empty.

 

[volospian]

A scimmy isn't my choice of car but basically it's going to drive like an overpowered bag of spuds with a 400hp smallblock in it. A Jag IRS weighs as much as an engine and makes any car very rear-heavy.

You'd be much better off with a 300hp cosworth or something that is a lot more compact and light. With the added weight of the V8 silly things like parking become a real arm ache, overheating in traffic due to lack of ventilation etc.

Dad's Cobra had a Jag IRS and it would oversteer something horrific at high speed due to the weight at the back. Once it started coming round there was no way to stop it. Basically there are plenty of other axle options that can replace the original.

What you definitely don't want is a car designed for going in a straight line on our roads. Great for traffic lights grand prix but a ball ache the rest of the time.

Edit: and to the rest of you posting pictures of shiny Mercs and the like it just doesn't have any effect on anyone who doesn't like new cars. They are just pictures of the bottom of the status symbol scale to me I'm afraid, you won't convince us otherwise.

The SBF is heavier than the original engine and so I think the weight balance would be similar. I could go for a different choice of rear end, that's not a problem, it's just that the jag rear end is a common (enough) mod on the scim and was really put in as a "it'll have a better form of suspension at the back" type comment rather than it being set in stone.

Overheating has been dealt with before, and PAS sorts out low speed steering issues. I prefer the SE6 anyway, andh a lot of them had PAS fitted from the factory, although epas may be a better idea.

 

[volospian]

The Scimi would be a great weekend car/project,but as a car for everyday use i just cant see it tbh.Were they ever luxury cars? i thought of them as a cheap way of getting a high performance car in a relatively cheap/light chassis.

Luxury enough for Princess Anne to use one. If they're good enough for royalty, they're good enough for a commoner like me.

Besides, luxury is only toys, and electric windows, pas, air con, central locking, electric heated seats, leather, etc, etc. can easily be added.

 

[volospian]

Luxury is more than toys, otherwise a Fiesta with aircon and heated leather would be a luxury car.

But a fiesta with air con and heated seats is luxury, as far as fiestas go.

I don't think many people would consider an S class to be a "luxury saloon" if the top specification was the same as a standard fiesta.

 

[volospian]

Oh, and for me character is the same as soul.

Character is what keeps you interested in the car.

Character has nothing to do with irritating faults. Character is the way it drives, the way it makes you feel, the reason why you would never sell it, for anything.

Character cannot be named. It cannot be said "I fixed that rattle and my heater works again now, suddenly my car has no character"

Popele who say that character is rattles and a faulty demister have absolutely no comprehension of character.

Almost no modern vehicle has character, mainly because the hard edges are filed off during the design process. A hard suspension is softened, but not too much, a notchy gear change is made more slippery, but not too much, nervous steering is softened, but not too much and so on, and so on, until the car is merely a mish-mash of what the designers think everybody wants.

Character only exists in modern cars where the designers have decided their target, made the car and left it at that or someone has built character into the car by changing what the designers made.

If someone told me their Elise had character, I could accept that, if merlin told me his 'teg had character, I'd accept that, but if someone told me that an "off the shelf" 530d had character, I'd probably wet myself laughing.

 

[volospian]

im shocked that your even considering this.

Why?

What makes a 400hp scimitar fit only for the weekend, while a 400hp bmw can be used every day?

 

[volospian]

For the money you're talking about, I'd personally be looking at a stacklight (possibly even a fintail) Mercedes.

There's a beautiful dove grey/blue Fintail on the bay right now. It's almost good enough to make you weep.

Then buy an eighties SEC and transplant the running gear...get John Sleath to do it and strengthen the chassis at the same time.

More style, more class and more character than ANY BMW.

*n

Meh, not a big fan of mercs, although this looks nice...

http://www.carandclassic.com/car/C04817

 

[volospian]

purpose built v non purpose built.

purpose built vs purpose rebuilt.

The scim will be stripped down the the bare chassis and reworked. This isn't just a "slap a big v8 in the bay, job done" scheme were talking.

 

[volospian]

your talking about 600bhp. your no manufacturer, you dont even know if the chassis can handle it. yet your willing to throw time and money at it.
that makes it a project car, something for the weekends / cold rainy nights, not a daily driver.

lmao. No, I'm willing to spend a lot of time and effort researching whether the car is capable of taking that sort of power and if so, what needs to be done to make it so. If that research shows the idea is truely viable, then I will plan the money and resources required to make it a reality. Once that is done I will look into the feasibility of persuing the project.

The only time and money being spent on this project at the moment is my bandwidth and my posting time on this and other forums regarding ideas, suggestions and advice.

That's the whole point of this thread, if anyone actually bothered to read the first post. Is a Ford V8 in a scimitar for a daily drive a viable proposition?

Indeed I wrote, in my very first post, "I'm beginning to think this may be too much work to get it right"

I will only do this if I can find enough knowledge and expertise to make the car meet my requirements. If the project deliverables do not suggest a suitability for purpose, I will not persue the project.

So far only Jonny69 and Lopez have added anything useful, and all of it about the Jag rear axle idea, for which I thank them.

 

[volospian]

So.....you want a Hot Rod 'Classic' with all the mod cons
Personally - I would have a normal daily, then something special for hooning around in evenings and weekends. I think the luxury classic will be a lot of time and effort, probably with little re-sale value....but what do I know!!

Meh, the toys was just a thought, but as they came with leather, pas and electric windows as options on earlier models, and standard on later ones I thought it would be nice to have a car that was madly powerful, but still had the options of a standard car, if you know what I mean. I'd probably fit better seats in the front mind, but electric heated is maybe going a bit far

I'm not really after a "hot rod" per se, the 600hp blown figure is me getting a little carried away with the possibilities, 400 is probably more realistic. Oh, and as I'm sure you know, resale value is not a consideration on a custom project

While I prefer the mechanics of the later SE6 cars (galvanised chassis from the factory and a newer chassis design than the SE5) the SE5 can be made to look fantastic, if you ask me.

Maybe I should drop the huge power option, go for a sensible 350hp or so and put it all in a sorted SE5 like this:

 

[volospian]

You seem somewhat suprised you've got this sort of reaction. I don't really understand why - surely you know the main demographic of this forum is 18-30 year old males - most of whom won't have been into cars since after the Reliant Scimiter had faded from the spotlight and thus, won't have amazingly brilliant technical opinions of their capability of a daily driver.

You should either be prepared to put up with the various opinions you'll inevitably get with a thread like this in a general discussion forum and then sort the wheat from the chaff, or simply post the question on a more specific enthusiast based site, although you do risk bias if you do that.

True, which is why I titled the thread "Penski and other mod-heads" as those people will have read various perfomance publications, will be into modded cars and will probably have visited places like Santa Pod and other race sites where cars are made out of all sorts of donors and so may have experienced such a mdified car. After all, it was Penski who gave me the idea in the first place.

My suprise comes more because I didn't title the thread "shall I buy an old pos or an M5?". If I had, then I could have expected some of the replies I have received.

Posting in threads on this forum is not compulsory. If you don't know anything about the question posed, then you don't need to post a response.

I was expecting a handful of responses along the lines of those by IainB, Jonny69, Lopez and Penski, all of which have been useful. I didn't particularly want "Shall I buy a Reliant Scimitar or M5? Worst. Thread. Ever." repsonse as that was not what was asked

 

[volospian]

Volospian, I'm not up to speed on American engines - would this be a crate engine direct from the States (rather than a s/h one already here in the UK)
What sort of cost are you looking at for the engine & ancillaries?

I'm not sure exactly as I haven't really got as far as deciding upon the actual source for the engine, but I'm basing preliminary costings on a turn key engine from here

I do like the service offered by these chaps, they encourage you to pop down, meet them, discuss your requirements, visit during the build stages and so on. They even give you a video of the first run up of the engine, for posterity

I think, as far as the potential project is concerned, if it turns out to be worth the effort, I'd probably buy a brand new turn key, rather than a cut out as I'd be pee'd off if I went to all the bother and a s/h engine siezed a week after it's first outing.