FAO Penski and other mod-heads

volospian said:
That's the whole point of this thread, if anyone actually bothered to read the first post. Is a Ford V8 in a scimitar for a daily drive a viable proposition?

You seem somewhat suprised you've got this sort of reaction. I don't really understand why - surely you know the main demographic of this forum is 18-30 year old males - most of whom won't have been into cars since after the Reliant Scimiter had faded from the spotlight and thus, won't have amazingly brilliant technical opinions of their capability of a daily driver.

You should either be prepared to put up with the various opinions you'll inevitably get with a thread like this in a general discussion forum and then sort the wheat from the chaff, or simply post the question on a more specific enthusiast based site, although you do risk bias if you do that.
 
v0n said:
Scimitar, as a retro car has something M5 will never, ever have. Class and exclusivity.

Absurd statement!

The M5 not having exclusivety? I beg to differ! - I'd love one of the 184 RHD e28 M5's built, shame they are so rare. :(

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The first & last (thus far) M5's.

Both already motoring legends. - Hardly a phrase associated with the Scimitar!
 
Gilly said:
If you can improve on the definition of what character is in a car lets hear it. I've asked this question seriously many times over the years and I've never really had a satisfactory answer.

Its led me to the same opinion Fox holds.
What Fox said (except I tend to replace the unreliable bits) and:

Stinks of oil or petrol.

That smell inside.

Looks different to normal.

Puts a smile on peoples faces.

Scares either the driver or the passenger in some way.
 
R124/LA420 said:
Absurd statement!

The M5 not having exclusivety? I beg to differ! - I'd love one of the 184 RHD e28 M5's built, shame they are so rare. :(

Both already motoring legends. - Hardly a phrase associated with the Scimitar!

To quote original poster "nice modern powerful saloon, like M5". So, we weren't discussing e28, but the new, E60, Dame Edna frontend, M5. Which sold since 2004 like what - at least one per every drug dealer in south east coucil estates? ;) Where's class or exclusivity in that? :D

As for motoring legend - nothing to do with character or class. Take Lancia Delta as example - motoring legend and character or class of Proton Saga minicab.
 
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v0n said:
To quote original poster "nice modern powerful saloon, like M5". So, we weren't discussing e28, but the new, E60, Dame Edna frontend, M5. Which sold since 2004 like what - at least one per every drug dealer in south east coucil estates? ;) Where's class or exclusivity in that? :D

I believe the car in question is the E39 M5 not the E60 M5, hence the 400bhp power output discussion.

I don't know where you live but on the rare occasions somebody has pointed out a 'drug dealer' to me they have been in old bangers or, bizarrely, a minicab.
 
Correct. Two down here and one up in Hampshire.

Maybe its different for you guys in London but down here you rarley see properly nice cars. Even a regular E39 5 Series is, whilst something you probably see every day, not in every carpark. I probably see about 1 Sport model every month.

Doesn't just apply to BMW's - never, ever seen an RS6 down here, and only ever one RS4..

There are, however, absolutely thousands of 3 Series and A4, mostly 1990-2000 models. They are quite literally more common than Mondeos.
 
Exclusivity is relative. I've seen (I think) 3 E39 M5s today. Countless 911s/Boxsters/Caymans and the usual smattering of Italian extaravgance that the sun brings out. You can't move without seeing a <3yr old German saloon.
 
Nozzer said:
Exclusivity is relative. I've seen (I think) 3 E39 M5s today. Countless 911s/Boxsters/Caymans and the usual smattering of Italian extaravgance that the sun brings out. You can't move without seeing a <3yr old German saloon.

But you constantly post pictures from the inside of various Lambourghini's and pictures of pubs with 30 Lotus Elise's in the carpark and suchlike so I think its fair to say your daily sightings are not reflective of the general population.
 
They're all taken at various events, I don't go round taking photos every time I go for a drive. :p

My comments will be echoed by anyone who lives in or around London.

edit: Anyway, that just reinforces my 'relative' point.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Maybe its different for you guys in London but down here you rarley see properly nice cars.

Let me put it this way - incedentally, out of about 80 E39 M5's in autotrader nationally, approx. 65 are in tradable distance from Leicester - beemer capital of the world or what? ;)
 
v0n said:
That's what I don't agree with, it's not really down to personal opinion. Defining character in cars is like defining character in women - to paraphrase cinematography - it's like dancing about architecture. Journalists tried to erect many cars to "character" or classic status throughout years - Renault Avantime, Vel Satic, Rover 800 Coupe or Subaru SVX thus mistaking quirkiness with character. Others insist on road presence, which is again misleading, as wimpy looking, anorexic BMW 2002 Turbo has more character than butch M6's could ever dream of. Character is not performace, as it's only Aston Martin, it's also VW Beetle. Car being a classic doesn't mean it has character. Pug 205 GTI is a classic, but it has as much character as an argos folding bike. Car not being a classic doesn't mean it has no character. Trabant 601 will never have true classic status but character it has. It's not exclusivity or classification. Between the two. Elise has it. VX220 doesn't. And for certain - it's not personal taste or opinion - most of us don't like old Minis, there is no denying they have character. Given a free choice, out of all classics very small number of people would reach for something like Austin Healey but it has character. I don't think you can nominate it, I don't think you can force it. I don't think you can choose car to gain character with time.
I understand depending on where we live, some of us don't see 3 and 5 series as asian/wigger mobile, someone here even said it's a "man in a suit" car, even though I have never ever seen man in a suit driving 5 series, unless by suit we mean suit from Sean Combs collection. Despite its chavy association I have no doubt M5 is a future classic. Character tho... I don't think it's something possible for it to gain and in general it doesn't really have it now, does it?
That paragraph was long, and hard to read - and I almost skipped over it because I don't tend to agree with many of your tirades as you well know ;)

I'm glad I didn't because you've summed it up perfectly.
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Volospian, I'm not up to speed on American engines - would this be a crate engine direct from the States (rather than a s/h one already here in the UK)
What sort of cost are you looking at for the engine & ancillaries?
 
v0n said:
Out of over 20,500 sold in UK alone?


that seems very high. i thought the number was around 4000 for RHD UK model.

i live in london and i have seen a few M5's around, equally though i have seen probably 10 or 20 times as many 911's or M3's and almost as many 355's/360's.

if you consider it just another 5 series then i would agree it most certainly isnt exclusive, however M5's are IMO. :)
 
TomO said:
that seems very high. i thought the number was around 4000 for RHD UK model.

i live in london and i have seen a few M5's around, equally though i have seen probably 10 or 20 times as many 911's or M3's and almost as many 355's/360's.

Yeah, it does seem high. I took the number from a press snippet on new M5 launch. Mind you 20,500 number doesn't add up when you take other BMW press releases:
"The United Kingdom is one of the three largest markets in the world for M cars. In 2001 BMW Great Britain sold 1,739 M cars.
733 M3 Coupé (since April 2001)
489 M3 Convertible (since June 2001)
427 M5
90 M Roadsters/Coupés"

A year later BMW claimed it sold 2400 M5's in "record year". Mmmm...

Too see M5 in London you need to go deeper into carparks of Stretham rather than Chelsea and Poplar rather than Canary Wharf...
 
Jonny69 said:
To be honest though to most people it's just any other BMW.

Exactly, it's like comparing Escort to Escort Cosworth, the Cossie is a better car, but it's still a Escort. Same for upgraded BMWs with a casual glance it looks like a common as muck BMW. It's like M5 is unique body shell.
 
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