Feb 27/28 for 5D2 replacement?...

Rojin said:
That's a hell of a big sticking point! Nobody in the market for the D300 replacement is going to buy the D800. People who previously had a FF and crop bodies perhaps, but those with just the crop? No chance.
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The thing is that the d7000 is around 1k, the d800 will probably be around 2k, so the d300 replacement will probably be around 1500 quid.

If I had that kind of cash burn on a camera, I'd find it hard to resist going for FF for that extra 500 or so :)
 
D800 is £2400 and the grip is £380. Sure the price will come down, but not fast enough! I'm still waiting for all these cheap D700's to start appearing :D
 
MikeHunt79 said:
The thing is that the d7000 is around 1k, the d800 will probably be around 2k, so the d300 replacement will probably be around 1500 quid.

If I had that kind of cash burn on a camera, I'd find it hard to resist going for FF for that extra 500 or so :)
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And they be exactly what Nikon is thinking.
TBH, I am struggling to see what the D300 replacement would be. Well, really the D7000 is the D300 replacement, but I still don't see what camera lies between a D7000 and a D800. This so called D400 would need the D4/D800 AF+metering+internals but then what kind of sensor? If it uses a tweaked D7000 sensor then don't see it being a camera where people would pay extra over a D7000. The D7000 has excellent focusing, metering and build quality already. The 24MP APS-C Sony sensor is just too pixel dense and if high-res was required then the D800 is the obvious choice of camera.
For those heavily invested in DX lenses putting them on a D800 still makes sense, you have D7000 sensor equivalent or better with the D4 AF+metering.
 
Rojin said:
D800 is £2400 and the grip is £380. Sure the price will come down, but not fast enough! I'm still waiting for all these cheap D700's to start appearing :D
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You might have to wait a long time for the D700 to lower in price.
I would also pick up a D700 if they became cheaply available but I doubt that will happen and so the D800 just makes more sense for little extra money.
Keeping my eyes open but I think soon enough price difference between a new D800 and a second hand D700 will be around £400 and the D800 is definitely worth that extra.

The D800 will drop to sub £2000 before too long.
 
D.P. said:
And they be exactly what Nikon is thinking.
TBH, I am struggling to see what the D300 replacement would be. Well, really the D7000 is the D300 replacement, but I still don't see what camera lies between a D7000 and a D800. This so called D400 would need the D4/D800 AF+metering+internals but then what kind of sensor? If it uses a tweaked D7000 sensor then don't see it being a camera where people would pay extra over a D7000. The D7000 has excellent focusing, metering and build quality already. The 24MP APS-C Sony sensor is just too pixel dense and if high-res was required then the D800 is the obvious choice of camera.
For those heavily invested in DX lenses putting them on a D800 still makes sense, you have D7000 sensor equivalent or better with the D4 AF+metering.
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Maybe the D7000 will be reduced in price to better take on the 60D and Rebels.
A tweaked 24mp Nex7 chip could be used in the D400 and could be priced around £1200?
Ideally it would actually be nice to see an APS-H in the D400, but I doubt we will see that.
 
I've heard occassional whisperings recently that the D400 will be full frame and a more obvious D700 replacement with a D4 'lite' style specification. I don't fully believe it but I've heard it twice from unconnected sources now so maybe there is something to it.

A 16MP D700 with video at around £1600 would be very interesting and it'd fill a hole in Nikon's line up nicely. Allows the D7000 (and it's successor) to sit around £1000 as a high end crop which allows the D5x00 to differentiate itself more from the D3x00 at the low end. It also accounts for the D800 market placement

Sure a few wildlife types would scream but Nikon's answer could easily be buy a teleconverter...

Again, I don't fully believe it but I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility to think Nikon might make the D400 full frame.
 
D.P. said:
You might have to wait a long time for the D700 to lower in price.
I would also pick up a D700 if they became cheaply available but I doubt that will happen and so the D800 just makes more sense for little extra money.
Keeping my eyes open but I think soon enough price difference between a new D800 and a second hand D700 will be around £400 and the D800 is definitely worth that extra.

The D800 will drop to sub £2000 before too long.
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If the D800 sells well and D700 owners move to it the prices will come down. One was offered for £1000 the other day on TP... Of course if the D700 owners all hold onto 'em... Looks like I'll be staying with the 1Ds2 for a while longer!
 
An Exception said:
Tbh, I don't think a D700 is that much of an upgrade is it?
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From my 1Ds2? Higher ISO and size is what I'm looking for. I love the 1Ds2 and no issues carrying it around, but there have been times when I just want to stick it in a bag when going somewhere and that has been a bit of an issue. Although for the price they are going for now I might pick up a 40D as a smaller camera, the crop will come in handy for airshows as well. I'm not getting an better ISO performance though, BUT I guess with spring\summer coming the light is going to get better anyhow. So no rush :D
 
bigredshark said:
I've heard occassional whisperings recently that the D400 will be full frame and a more obvious D700 replacement with a D4 'lite' style specification. I don't fully believe it but I've heard it twice from unconnected sources now so maybe there is something to it.

A 16MP D700 with video at around £1600 would be very interesting and it'd fill a hole in Nikon's line up nicely. Allows the D7000 (and it's successor) to sit around £1000 as a high end crop which allows the D5x00 to differentiate itself more from the D3x00 at the low end. It also accounts for the D800 market placement

Sure a few wildlife types would scream but Nikon's answer could easily be buy a teleconverter...

Again, I don't fully believe it but I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility to think Nikon might make the D400 full frame.
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I have heard similar things, potentially a D800h type camera, a D800 with D4 sensor and few minor tweaks to differentiate it from the D4.

The wildlife photographers will be going for the D800 so I am not sure that they will complain at the lack of a pro DX camera. The D800 in DX crop would give wildlife photographers nearly 16MP which is plenty and this kind of pixel density is already fairly extreme. As 'An Exception' suggests, a D400 using a tweaked Sony 24MP APS-C sensor might please some bird photographers but most wildlife people will be happy with 16MP in crop mode with the flexibility of higher res photos when then don't need such reach.

The D800 is actually looking like a fantastic nature camera camera, covering both landscape in high res and wildlife with high pixel-density.
The 16MP D4 sensor is a great all rounder but wont maximize pixels per duck. I think even for some outdoor sports a D800 may have a use depending on the photographers style. Sure most will prefer the high FPS of the D4 and any inside sports or night-time will need the D4 noise performance, but with daylight events for those that don't machine gun will appreciate the D800 sensor.
 
Rojin said:
If the D800 sells well and D700 owners move to it the prices will come down. One was offered for £1000 the other day on TP... Of course if the D700 owners all hold onto 'em... Looks like I'll be staying with the 1Ds2 for a while longer!
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I think many D700 will hold on to theirs, unless they need the high-res or video. The D800 does offer next-gen AF and internals but the D700 was top of the line prior-generation and the gaps between generations are diminishing with each release so I don't think a D700 owner will replace a D700 purely due to focusing.

You also have to remember how well Nikon bodies tend to hold their value.

The D700 will come down in value but maybe not as fast as we would want. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
For static wildlife the D800 will be great, I hate the 4fps on my 1Ds2 for birds in flight though. The wings never seem to be in the right position, something that a higher fps helps with a lot. I keep coming back to the D800, it's a lot of bang for buck. The 5D2 replacement has got to show very good performance if it really is £500 more expensive...
 
Rojin said:
For static wildlife the D800 will be great, I hate the 4fps on my 1Ds2 for birds in flight though. The wings never seem to be in the right position, something that a higher fps helps with a lot. I keep coming back to the D800, it's a lot of bang for buck. The 5D2 replacement has got to show very good performance if it really is £500 more expensive...
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birds-in-flight (BIF) is always a tough experience. I basically haven't even tried with my D90.

The problem with BIF is you need pixel density, lens reach, super fast AF, good noise performance (to get shutter speeds up), fast FPS and lenses that are not too heavy yet still have load of reach and a fast aperture. Not an easy set of requirements, and entirely contradictory. I know some people that go equipped with both a D3s + 600mm F/4 and a D90 + 70-300VR because they quickly tire of the 60mm lens and sometimes struggle to track the birds, but the lightweight D90 setup can quickly have them tracking the birds anywhere in the sky and so the slower focusing and FPS is less of a hindrance as they have more time to work the shot.
 
There's nothing worse than successfully tracking a bird only to find the shots are average due to wing placement. I gave up on the whole thing after working out the expense of picking up a 1D4 and a 300 f2.8 plus 2x TC to cover all the stuff I wanted at the time. It was then that I realised sticking within my limits was the way to go :D
 
I'm sorry but why do a lot of people insist on high frame rates for BIFS. I can understand it should make it easier but surely learning proper technique is only a matter of time and experience. I have a d800 on order and I'm sure I will appreciate the 4 FPS it delivers.
 
capdegat said:
I'm sorry but why do a lot of people insist on high frame rates for BIFS. I can understand it should make it easier but surely learning proper technique is only a matter of time and experience. I have a d800 on order and I'm sure I will appreciate the 4 FPS it delivers.
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Depends on the birds you're shooting, if it's gliding/soaring you're fine on single shot. If it's powering through with lots of wing movement you soon appreciate what 10fps gives you over 4fps. I go out now with the 1Ds2 and get plenty of shots, none that I Iike due to boring or obstructive wing placement :(
 
The problem is that the new 5d/7d is only going to go to 7Fps anyway . I did look at a 1d iv to replace my 7d but decided against it. I have always been torn between crop and ff so have swopped 5d and 7d a couple of times and just cant get on with 7d .The 5d is not up to wildlife and it looks like the new one will be only slightly better .
 
Don't forget you do get better fps in crop mode on the D800 and with the grip/D4 batteries. Still only 6 though.
 
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