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Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021

Taken from AMD 4k uploads

FSR Off Left, FSR ON right

Damn son, that's some strong ass Vaseline!

The rumors were true, FSR's image quality needs some work.
Rumour mill said AMD was delaying FSR till the end of the year to try and improve image quality, not anymore launch it asap was the message.






 
Hotwired said:
So I go to the youtube links, comments surprisingly heavy on 1060 users being positive about FSR.

Ah I see, they can't use DLSS and 1060s are the most popular card.

Sounds good then.

Aside from the fact that youtube comments appear to have less mentally wonky fanboy posts than here.

Upscaling has a quality penalty. I'm slowly getting around to the tradeoff being acceptable for the purposes of having a larger and higher fps output.
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FSR appears to just be a resolution slider, ya know that feature that many games have already. It doesn't use any motion vector or info from other frames, it simple adjusts the input resolution like a resolution slider and probably throws a sharpening filter over it. I'm surprised it doesn't just work at the driver for every game out of the box. It's therefore impossible for FSR to be comparable to native, it doesn't replace TAA or any anti aliasing, it just reduces your image quality and sharpens it, you're left with less pixel detail and same TAA
 
oguzsoso said:
i agree tbh. probably better psychologically, since users won't be seeing a solid lower resolution scale in their graphical menu (this is how console games work, people are happy as long as they don't know what's behind it. same for dlss, but at least it does some actual work besides lowering the res and applying a sharpen filter)
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It's still a good feature to have. Having a resolution and sharpening slider in all games is a good thing and something I've been waiting for - but it's not a competitor to DLSS in its current form, I'll still use DLSS in games where it's supported and use FSR only in games that don't have DLSS and if I need extra frames otherwise Native will be better than FSR.

AMD May expand its FSR libraries with new feature me more akin to DLSS if they put AI cores in RDNA3. I.e AMD may add Microsoft's MLSS into FSR at some point
 
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Poneros said:
Thing is, the comparison isn't vs native, it's vs alternatives, and in the case of something like Godfall since it's on UE4, that would be TAAU which is a simple toggle (see examples here (FSR looks closer to what simple TAA upscale looks like): https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/RenderingAndGraphics/ScreenPercentage/). In the future as projects move to UE5 the comparison will be even more unfavourable because of how good TSR is (see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/nozuvo/testing_unreal_engine_5_temporal_super_resolution/).

So if it's not even as good as that then what's the point? If it were a driver toggle that would be more understandable (and useful), but since it requires per-game integration anyway then meh.
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The only reason amd didn't use a driver toggle was adoption - if it's limited to amd driver then even if it's open source Intel and Nvidia won't touch it. AMD has lots of examples for this in its other open source software that no one but amd uses.

By implementing it into the game, it makes the feature work with any modern graphics card or console, at the expense of having to implement in games one by one

so pick ya poison, instant implementation but no one but AMD uses it or try to get everyone to use it with slow implementation


As for what's the point, simple, not all games are built on UE5, most games don't have simple built in resolution sliders that is easy for gamer to use. Gamers would like a one button click for more fps, that's what FSR can offer. Don't expect miracles from FSR and you won't be disappointed- yesterday hardware unboxed asked AMD if FSR produces higher framerate at a given internal resolution compared to native, their answer was you'll have to test it yourself - I.e they either don't even know how well FSR works or doesn't or they're hiding that it's no better than just using a resolution slider, main benefit = one click, no thinking and testing needed
 
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shankly1985 said:
Yeah because amd would give access to the features before anyone else wouldn't they :rolleyes:

Keep on the damage control path.
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it's the same thing ya - Trixx is a solution that only works on Saphire thats the problem - FSR packages the feature into an API that's compiled into the game for maximum compatibility. Same result, different implementation
 
fs123 said:
You'd have to be a complete numbskull to believe FSR is the same as TrixxBoost. If it was then AMD would implement it in the driver without having to work with devs. Try harder mate.
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Already explained. AMD didn't want to put it into the driver even though they easily can, if it's in their driver then Nvidia and Intel won't use it. By putting into the game you force Nvidia and Intel GPU to use it.
 
Hot take: AMD is only trying to push FSR onto Nvidia so it can compete in a level playing field

AMD has no answer for DLSS, if they can push developers to use FSR they can get more favourable comparisons where Nvidia doesn't have the clear advantage in image quality. FSR = trying to lower your competitors superior image quality so you only have to compete on framerate

let's see how many jimmies this rustles
 
D.P. said:
It is strange how vested some posters seem to get, and to the lengths they have to go to defend or attack a company that they have no control over.
The mental gymnastics and irreverent comparisons to try and win points over issues that no one actually cares about is staggering.

It is a shame because it means it is almost impossible just to discuss the technology and examine the pros and cons. Instead it comes down to some mud slinging match when certain posters rabble on about AMD this, Nvidia that, console sales mean X, Y technology is dead. Made all the worse when those who shout the loudest seem to have no understanding of the underlying technologies they are trying to attack or defend.


Personally, I am very excited at what AMD have provided in FSR. Consumers can only win if both IHVs invest heavily in this technology and push the boundaries.

The facts are:
  • Temporal accumulation combined with Deep-learning image reconstruction can provide equal or better than native + TAA
  • The latest temporal super resolution methods as shown in UE5 looks great, without any ML being used at all
  • Deep learning applied to a single image is the state of the art of spatial image scaling and was shown in DLSS 1
  • AMD have more or less confirmed that FSR is only spatial, which provides an upper bound on quality. Small chance AMD have screwed up their marketing info
  • Temporal methods require a more involved integration with the game engine to collect motion vectors, which may be why FSR doesn't use temporal accumulation. Nvidia had to put in a lot of effort to get plug n play DLSS drop in feature.
  • AMD have image scaling patents based on deep learning, so it is possible that FSR is an deep learning based spatial filter like DLSS 1.0
  • RDNA (and all GPUs) can do the matrix math required for DL inference, RDNA2 has some additional instructions that provide further acceleration. But the performance is not comparable to Tensor Cores. This has an impact on the model complexity and performance, but does not prevent a DL based super resolution model being present in FSR
  • FSR require game engine integration, it is not driver level, just like DLSS. This may hint that in the future FSR could be extended to utilize temporal accumulation (or in fact already does)
  • AMD's officially released image, even at ultra quality, are absolutely shocking. No better than the ancient bi-cubic scaling available for the last few decades. One can only hope this is a marketing failure. It is hard to imagine they will release FSR in that state, would be a disaster.
  • AMD did support Epic in implementing TSR in UE5. If they have seen the quality that is possible then it is hard to believe they would eb happy with their released FSR screen shots.
  • IF AMD limits to spatial information and doesn't use deep learning image reconstruction, then their available options are highly limited to existing linear algorithms with something like CAS applied on top. FSR is then effectively DoA
  • If FSR only uses spatial information, then in game TAA will have to be applied for anti-aliasing, and all the pros and cons of TAA will get magnified.


I do start to wonder if FSR is actually not something more akin to UE5's TSR and something went wrong in the marketing material.
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precisely as I inferred earlier from what I had read on the matter, FSR still needs additional anti aliasing over it - and since most games use TAA that will seriously limit its potential and it's another reason why DLSS has superior visuals.

As for pascal owners getting excited https://wccftech.com/no-amds-fsr-fi...-alternative-and-here-is-why-you-should-care/

AMD has backtracked and clarified that Nvidia cards will not support FSR unless Nvidia puts in work on a game by game basis to make it work, which they probably won't and AMD have said they will not do it - it's just more AMD open source software that Nvidia won't touch
 
henson0115 said:
how can it be better than native w/aa ? literally doesnt make any sense to me at all. you are literally removing stuff to get more frames, its like comparing lossless audio to lossy how can lossless ever be better than lossy. surely it can only ever be equal to in a best case scenario.

yes its a good option to improve frames, but sayings its the same quality wise or better is just absurd.
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Doesn't need to physically be better, just good enough to trick your eyes at normal viewing distance
 
ICDP said:
People keep saying AMD were not competing but ignore that this was only at very top tiers (2080 Ti, 1080Ti). I get that the halo effect is a a factor but the majority of gamers had ample choice from AMD where they gave similar or better price/performance.

So this time round they decided to price the same because no matter what they do they sit around 18% - 20% market share. So they may as well make money from those who do consider AMD. Had they had ample prodiction they could have gained marketshare but they lied worse than Nvidia for a change on 6800 availablilty.
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AMD's cpu stock has improved but most of its wafers are still going to consoles which are constantly sold out, MS and Sony want more. You can make several times more Xbox/ps5/ryzen5000 from a wafer compared to a rx6000 gpu, so the margins on gpu is poor when factoring in the opportunity cost.

it's unlikely AND gpu stock will improve until RDNA3 in mid to late next year.

At the current rate, AMD's RX6000 GPUs may not make an appear either on the steam hardware survey for another 6 months
 
Wrinkly said:
Ouch!
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lol that sick burn, Raja is trying to be nice so need to translate it:

We will take a look at FSR since it's open source, but at the end of the day our GPU's are designed for AI Deep Learning so our preference is for Deep Learning methods like DirectML as these improve performance and provide better visual quality than non deep learning methods, such as FSR.
 
I don't think AMD is stupid so my view on this is that AMD built FSR real quick just to have something to compete, I believe DLSS really surprised AMD and they were caught unaware by it. They need something ASAP so the current form of FSR was created, doing it using the AI method takes more time to develop.

There is no reason to think that AMD will stop here, they are probably right now working on an AI temporal version of FSR that will come later on and are designing RDNA3 to make use of it - AMD has much more time to get it right for this one, it's still more than 12 months till RDNA3 is announced so they'll spend that time working on a true DLSS competitor/beater

An AI temporal version of FSR may not be as Universally compatible but at least the base FSR upscale fallback is there - when it comes to consoles only the Series X has AI accelerators that could make full use of an AI temporal image reconstruction - and that was because Microsoft asked AMD to give it AI accelerated cores in addition to its base RDNA2 GPU tech. Microsoft had good vision for what was coming so congrats to them and in that regard, it's possible the Series X actually has an RDNA3 feature which gives it a nice advantage
 
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