Flat adverts that may be breaking the law

[danielanthony]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18588612

"To let" advertisements that specify a particular race or religion are visible in newsagents windows in many areas of London. But are they breaking the law?

I was a bit surprised when I saw this but it got me thinking. Part of me thinks that if I was sharing my home with a flatmate I would like to have as much in common with them as possible. But on the other hand, an advert would cause outrage if the criteria was "white English only".

Surely this also feeds into the debate of how ethnicities like to stick together e.g. African or Chinese area's of certain towns/cities. I thought it was all about integration nowadays and so living seperate lives doesn't exactly promote this. To me, being simplistic, this racial segrigation seems a bit like voluntary apartheid!

 

[danielanthony]

I just think it's a bit of a shame that people don't want to mix with other cultures.

I lived in Holland for a few years when I was about 12, I didn't speak Dutch when I arrived but made Dutch friends and learnt to speak the language. My parents hung out with other British people from work and didn't really speak the language or have any Dutch friends. I feel I got a lot more out of the experience then they did.

 

[danielanthony]

While it does seem wrong or illegal just think about it, it if says Polish,gay or whatever only, then at least you know in advance so you don ‘t waste your time viewing places just to be told few days later "sorry, we can't rent it to you".

What if an employer didn't want Black or Asian workers in their workplace? Should they just advertise "no Black or Asians need apply" so that they don't waste their time going to the interview?

 

[danielanthony]

That's the whole question of the article. Employment law would rightly call it discriminatory. The question is, should that law be extended to private landlords specifying the preferred ethnicity of their tenants.

It's not employment law, it's the Equality Act and I'm making the point that if it's applied to jobs, healthcare and education, why not accomodation which is another important aspect of everyone's life?

Well from the article we can see that these types of adverts are illegal. However, not all laws are right and clearly not everyone on OCUK will agree.

 

[danielanthony]

Exactly. The workers and the people who buy the services/goods from that company can make the decision to support that company or not.

But isn't this a step backwards for racial and sexual equality? What if that employer was Thames Water or BP? People wouldn't be able to boycot those companies in protest.

 

[danielanthony]

Sorry yes, Equality Act.

Well, jobs healthcare and education aren't under the control of private individuals renting their private property, hence my assertion that this is nothing more than an individual expressing their right to personal choice. I bet you wouldn't find an estate agent advertising with the same restrictions.

I think you'll find there are private hospitals and schools. And none of them, I am ready to be corrected, filter patients or pupils by race at least. What if the BNP set up a school for white English kids only, totally ok as they are expressing a personal choice. I would imagine that such a school would be quite popular in certain parts of the country but it is not allowed to happen because it would rightly be deemed as having a racist entry policy.

I hear that people are saying that your home should be considered differently, but most people spend 9 hours per day at work and have to interact with the other people they work with regardless of race, gender or religion. So if we are saying that we don't want to live with people different to ourselves surely this would also mean we don't want to work with different types of people either?

 

[danielanthony]

If it's your place and your own private property, then you should have every right to discriminate over who you have living with you IMO.

But would this not also apply if you owned a company and employed workers? Would that give you the right to only employ Polish people because you simply don't like anyone else?

If you own a company I would argue that you would feel as strongly about having people who fit the company ethos would be as important to you as having the right flatmate.

 

[danielanthony]

it's YOUR home and YOUR choice to decide who to live there. Much as I think landlords shouldn't discriminate based on race, I don't think we should take that choice away from them.

Fair enough, I just find it hard to reconcile the difference between discrimination in work/education/healthcare but not when it comes to finding a place to live. It personally wouldn't bother me if I shared a house with people of a different race but some cultural differences might make things difficult or interesting. Ultimately though you don't know until you give it a chance and excluding people like this means there is not the opportunity to find out.

And how do you know that someone with the same background as you wont be a complete **** anyway?

 

[danielanthony]

I feel that you should be able to choose exactly who lives in your property, with or without you there.

If it's your house, does it not seem a bit backward to say, "Right, you can pay £160,000 for this flat, but that doesn't mean you don't get the choice as to who lives with you"

That's crazy talk.

But you're not forced to rent out a room and if you do you may have to declare the income for tax purposes. Likewise, if you choose to rent out a room then you also have to abide by the law (Equality Act) which says you can't discriminate on grounds of gender, race, sexuality or religion.

 

[danielanthony]

...
I love bacon, and pork sausages. I can't imagine a Jewish tenant being particularly keen on sharing food making and storage facilities, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to adjust my diet based on their beliefs.
...

But then I assume many Jewish people still shop in Tesco, Sainsbury's et al even though they sell quite a few pork products. My point is that you would be excluding Jewish tennants because you are making assumptions about how they live their lives. In your example, I would simply mention to the prospective tennant that I was a massive pork sausage lover if the issue of their Jewishness came up, if it didn't then I'd imagine that religious issues such as this were not important to them.

 

[danielanthony]

I understand that an Englishman's home is his castle, BUT:

This lack of integration means the sharing of experiences and accumulation of common assumptions that bind communities together does not happen. That alone would be bad enough, but worse, it allows perceptions to go unchallenged. These layer up to create walls of assumption that not only divide communities but create a sufficient level of ‘otherness’ that people can vote BNP because they genuinely believe that the ‘blacks are taking all our houses, the Asians have got all the jobs’. And not all the bricks in these walls were laid by one side. Sweeping generalisations and destructive stereotypes work both ways.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/charlie-baker/is-there-racial-segregation-in-britains-towns

There have been a lot of assumptions made by people in this thread about other cultures or races not wanting to live together. Without even entertaining the possibility of living with someone from a different culture, how can we be expected to live in a more integrated society?