I'm not saying there are any. I wouldn't personally put that sort of restriction up. However it's harder for you to prove that there isn't a reason and in the end that's all that matters, you will have to prove the reasoning behind it is racist. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Flat adverts that may be breaking the law
- Thread starter danielanthony
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I'm not saying there are any. I wouldn't personally put that sort of restriction up. However it's harder for you to prove that there isn't a reason and in the end that's all that matters, you will have to prove the reasoning behind it is racist. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Soldato
Innocent of what though?,
Having a specification to deny a certain race a service based entirely off skin colour, is objectively racist - they are already guilty.
If the skin colour is the only criteria they mention, I don't think it's exactly far fetched to say for certain it's racist.
If the advert said, "would prefer a house-mate with a similar cultural background" - then fair enough - as that could also include white people who had a similar cultural upbringing, the criteria is based on something which isn't race.
If that's what they mean, that's what they should say - if it's a genuine case of "no blacks/no whites" then it should be challenged for being racist.
Caporegime
I feel that you should be able to choose exactly who lives in your property, with or without you there.
If it's your house, does it not seem a bit backward to say, "Right, you can pay £160,000 for this flat, but that doesn't mean you don't get the choice as to who lives with you"
That's crazy talk.
If it's your house, does it not seem a bit backward to say, "Right, you can pay £160,000 for this flat, but that doesn't mean you don't get the choice as to who lives with you"
That's crazy talk.
Well you and I have different meanings to the word racist. I think people should be allowed to choose it's up to them. They own it. At the end of the day if you own a house and you want a certain race in it and not another then you should be allowed to.
In answer to your question "Innocent of what?" Racism, I thought that was obvious.
You are assuming their reasoning for saying no <insert race here> is because they're racist. You cannot assume that. You cannot assume their reasoning. You have to prove that the reason they are doing it is because they're racist.
Soldato
I didn't reply because the hypothetical questions you posted ignored the over-arching point.
The hypothetical scenario was voiced to make a singular point, which was that you can't allow outright racism in the world of business, because some people may be denied services/goods they may need & alternatives may not exist within the local area.
The law is pretty clearly on my side on this one.
It was your hypothetical LOL
I was pointing out how silly and unrealistic it was.... and?
Soldato
People need to start acknowledging that different races, cultures, religions, sexes, ages are just that - different, and not playing the "omgracism" card whenever they are treated as such.
Note that I said different not better or worse.
In this case, when it comes to looking for people to share your home with, there are perfectly valid reasons why persons of a certain culture may not necessarily be ideal candidates.
Just as an example;
I love bacon, and pork sausages. I can't imagine a Jewish tenant being particularly keen on sharing food making and storage facilities, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to adjust my diet based on their beliefs.
There are numerous other reasons why certain cultures/genders/ages/etc wouldn't necessarily be particularly good housemates for other certain cultures, but note how I'm at no point saying they are better or worse in themselves, simply different and perhaps incompatible.
So you would force someone to accept a tenant they didn't want to live with for a variety of perfectly good reasons into their own home?
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But you're not forced to rent out a room and if you do you may have to declare the income for tax purposes. Likewise, if you choose to rent out a room then you also have to abide by the law (Equality Act) which says you can't discriminate on grounds of gender, race, sexuality or religion.
Precisely. You cant just say "regardless of motivation" because motivation is critical in determining if these ads are racist.
None of the ads excluded anyone based on colour. They could all be seen to be referring to a specific cultural group, rather than excluding particular ethnic groups, which would imply their discrimination is based purely on their colour and ethnicity.
Which, as I've argued, is no more racist than saying you would rather share you're home with other students, or other people who also have no pets, or other people who are considered older.
You might consider the words they are using to be racist, but it doesn't mean the people are.
Soldato
Nobody is saying you need to let people into the family home for dinner.
This is business transaction for a house-share, it's not the same.
As I said before, you say I'm assuming it's racist?.
Ok... repeat after me.
Expressing a criteria to deny somebody of a specific race a service - based entirely on race is racist.
That's like saying "The guy who beat up that kid for no other reason than he was white, may not have been racist" - is that your argument?.
Soldato
However how do you know if the part in bold is the reason?
That's the point. It's not necessarily based entirely on race.
The people in question are using racial identifiers to specify the preferred cultural background of their tenant.
It might look racist on the face of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty of racism.
Hence, as I said, it's not as clear cut as you seem to be making out.
Soldato
I'm waiting for that example of a singular other reason for denying somebody a service due to being black, which isn't racist.
If it's not necessarily then you will be able to provide at least one example.
Soldato
I gave you one a moment ago...
Soldato
Access to services, private and public, are covered by the Equality Act.
As long as you are not blatent about your racism, you can do what you like. "Sorry, we have another tenant offering to pay more" etc.
But then I assume many Jewish people still shop in Tesco, Sainsbury's et al even though they sell quite a few pork products. My point is that you would be excluding Jewish tennants because you are making assumptions about how they live their lives. In your example, I would simply mention to the prospective tennant that I was a massive pork sausage lover if the issue of their Jewishness came up, if it didn't then I'd imagine that religious issues such as this were not important to them.
Soldato
That was a cultural argument, if you read what I said I was specifically talking about an advert which said "no whites/blacks" etc - please explain how you would know what culture somebody is from skin colour.
You wouldn't know if somebody was atheist/Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Sikh from skin colour, or anything about the individuals personality which could cause a clash.
Soldato
You don't have the right to discriminate is the point you seem ever keen on missing.