Foodbanks: A sign of the times?

[wildman]

Real poverty, or the bullcrap 'relative poverty' they tout in this country?

Poverty is relative to the environment it spawns from. Therefore direct comparisons of poverty in say Ethiopia against Poverty in the UK are not comparable as the base starting points are very different.

In the UK you can live in a house and still be in poverty, so if you compare the fact that the person lives in a house so they can't be in poverty because Ethiopians who are poor live in a ditch then the argument put forth is pretty useless.

If that makes any sense ?

 

[Danthus]

Times are tough, we all have to make sacrifices, we have even started to drink non vintage champagne.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

what happened to food vouchers? i remember McD's used to take them back in the late 80's when i worked there. Did they stop them in favour of something else?

Really?

Encouraging benefit claimants to eat at McD's?

Really?

 

[Jonny69]

For the record, the mobile phone I got off Freecycle costs me about £6-£7 per month on average with 50 free minutes with each £10 top-up. My landline costs me £14 per month I believe. If I was on the breadline, I think I know which one would go first, and *hint* it's not the mobile.

 

[SpeedFreak]

For the record, the mobile phone I got off Freecycle costs me about £6-£7 per month on average with 50 free minutes with each £10 top-up. My landline costs me £14 per month I believe. If I was on the breadline, I think I know which one would go first, and *hint* it's not the mobile.

As an individual nobody can deny that it makes sense, in a family situation this doesn't.

 

[krooton]

Poverty is relative to the environment it spawns from. Therefore direct comparisons of poverty in say Ethiopia against Poverty in the UK are not comparable as the base starting points are very different.

In the UK you can live in a house and still be in poverty, so if you compare the fact that the person lives in a house so they can't be in poverty because Ethiopians who are poor live in a ditch then the argument put forth is pretty useless.

If that makes any sense ?

But people perceive poverty as a baseline thing, living in a hellhole, eating half a price of bread for each meal, stuff like that.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a country where shanty towns are rife that I have a different feel towards poverty.

The thing about relative poverty is how it's a reversal of 'the lowest common denominator'.

A measure of relative poverty defines "poverty" as being below some relative poverty threshold. For example, the statement that "households with an accumulated income less than 60% of the median equivalized household disposable income are living in poverty" uses a relative measure to define poverty. In this system, if everyone's real income in an economy increases, but the income distribution stays the same, then the rate of relative poverty will also stay the same.

This means, by its very nature, that there will always be a family living in (relative) poverty, even if they have a very high living standard.

Relative poverty measurements can sometimes produce odd results, especially in small populations. For example, if the median household in a wealthy neighborhood earns US$1 million each year, then a family that earns US$100,000 would be considered poor on the relative poverty scale, even though such a family could meet all of its basic needs and much more. At the other end of the scale, if the median household in a very poor neighborhood earned only 50% of what it needs to buy food, then a person who earned the median income would not be considered poor on a relative poverty scale, even though the person is clearly poor on an absolute poverty scale.

 

[Things change I've changed]

In one, a parent has an iPhone 4, one child has an iPhone 4s. Neither parent works but this is purely anecdotal.

That's interesting, tbh any child having an iPhone 4s is silly imo but nevertheless did they take those contracts out while they were jobless?

How did we ever manage without this immediate contact? At a guess the unemployed parents would be at home anyhow.

How did we ever cope with a lot of things, perhaps we should go back to horse and cart?, technological advances shape our environment and dictate how we live and the required necessities in our life to function properly in a modern society, yes we can do away with a lot of things but it's not practical given the world we live in today.

Poor people seem to care the most about stuff like phones, because that's the only way they can show off. They can't afford a nice house or brand new cars or holidays to Belize, the way middle class people show off. So they show off with phones, big TVs, "designer" clothes, and stuff like that.

Can't really blame them, everyone wants to show off one way or another.

So it's easy to say "just give up your phone, sky, etc" as a middle class person because you could do that and still have your house, holidays, and everything, but they would have nothing at all left.

Not saying they are entitled to those things of course, just showing the other side of the coin.

Good point.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Poverty is relative to the environment it spawns from. Therefore direct comparisons of poverty in say Ethiopia against Poverty in the UK are not comparable as the base starting points are very different.

In the UK you can live in a house and still be in poverty, so if you compare the fact that the person lives in a house so they can't be in poverty because Ethiopians who are poor live in a ditch then the argument put forth is pretty useless.

If that makes any sense ?

It'll make no sense to the right wing, liberal captilists in abundance on here

 

[TheVoice]

A mobile phone is a luxury product. It isn't something you need, it's something you want.

Regardless, the majority of people have expensive smartphones on high value contracts, not £10 Nokia's using £10 of credit a year.

An iPhone4 on Contract is what, £800ish over 2 years?

Makes me laugh when I'm sat with some of the managers at work during lunch, listening to them complain about having no money at the end of the month whilst they play Draw Something on their iPhone 4s.

 

[krooton]

Makes me laugh when I'm sat with some of the managers at work during lunch, listening to them complain about having no money at the end of the month whilst they play Draw Something on their iPhone 4s.

Friend of mine who earns 10k more than me is always broke by the 3rd week of the month, and has mountains of debt. I've tried to help her out numerous times but she just cannot seem to stop spending.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I wonder how many people who visit a food bank smoke, drink, watch sky and have a mobile phone?

I know someone who volunteers at one of these places. Apparently this doesn't fit their perception of the people they help.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Poverty is relative to the environment it spawns from. Therefore direct comparisons of poverty in say Ethiopia against Poverty in the UK are not comparable as the base starting points are very different.

In the UK you can live in a house and still be in poverty, so if you compare the fact that the person lives in a house so they can't be in poverty because Ethiopians who are poor live in a ditch then the argument put forth is pretty useless.

If that makes any sense ?

A household is in poverty if it receives a combined income of below 60 percent of the country's median income, which is just under £200 a week.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

People in this thread seem to be confusing absolute and relative poverty. Absolute poverty is physically damaging, no doubt, but absolute poverty is just as damaging to the fabric of society when it comes to social exclusion:

Absolute poverty is defined as the lack of sufficient resources with which to keep body and soul together.

Relative poverty defines income or resources in relation to the average. It is concerned with the absence of the material needs to participate fully in accepted daily life.

22% of people in this country live in relative poverty (by the above measure of household income).

 

[krooton]

A household is in poverty if it receives a combined income of below 60 percent of the country's median income, which is just under £200 a week.

Does that include or exclude any benefits and the like?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Does that include or exclude any benefits and the like?

:

These sums of money are measured after income tax, council tax and housing costs have been deducted, where housing costs include rents, mortgage interest (but not the repayment of principal), buildings insurance and water charges. They therefore represent what the household has available to spend on everything else it needs, from food and heating to travel and entertainment.

http://www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key facts.shtml

 

["andy"]

The sort of people going to food banks aren't your average maximum benefit receiving for life family's , they are single folks trying to manage to pay bills and buy food/travel on £50 a week , maybe they've just been made unemployed for example

If I got "let go" from work tommorow I'd be absolutely bamboozled too , yea I'd get council tax and housing benefits but it wouldnt pay my gas , electric , already existing phone/Internet contract , if i needed a pair of shoes for example even the cheapest pair I going to leave me with much less money for food that week.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

If I got "let go" from work tommorow I'd be absolutely bamboozled too , yea I'd get council tax and housing benefits but it wouldnt pay my gas , electric , already existing phone/Internet contract , if i needed a pair of shoes for example even the cheapest pair I going to leave me with much less money for food that week.

People should really have savings sufficient enough to cover 6-12 months should that happen

 

["andy"]

"should" But how many do ? especially those on part time minimum wage who aren't all that better off than they would be on benefits

 

[kwerk]

People in this thread seem to be confusing absolute and relative poverty. Absolute poverty is physically damaging, no doubt, but absolute poverty is just as damaging to the fabric of society when it comes to social exclusion:

Absolute poverty is defined as the lack of sufficient resources with which to keep body and soul together.

Relative poverty defines income or resources in relation to the average. It is concerned with the absence of the material needs to participate fully in accepted daily life.

17.1% of people in this country live in relative poverty (by the above measure of household income).

"Accepted daily life" is flexible though. The quality of life for nearly everybody in the UK is going to drop over this decade, so what's "accepted" is going to be much lower. So really it doesn't mean anything, it just means there's a distribution of income, same way there is a distribution of intelligence or anything else in a population. Always has been, always will be. It's a meaningless phrase thought up by left wing sociologists. I mean what is "relative poverty" in Monaco? Not having a Bentley?

poverty = lack of food, shelter, clothes

 

[krooton]

:

These sums of money are measured after income tax, council tax and housing costs have been deducted, where housing costs include rents, mortgage interest (but not the repayment of principal), buildings insurance and water charges. They therefore represent what the household has available to spend on everything else it needs, from food and heating to travel and entertainment.

http://www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key facts.shtml

After housing costs?

That's surprising