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freinds new build not working need advice

Discussion in 'New to PC gaming & upgrade advice' started by wookiee87, May 9, 2019.

  1. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    as the title my freind updated his pc not long ago he bought new components which include

    ryzen 2600x
    asus b450 f atx mobo
    corsair lpx white 2666mhz (2*8gb sticks)
    gtx 1060 6gb
    samsung 850 evo 1tb ssd
    kingston 120gb ssd
    windows 10 home latest 1809 build.

    now the issue hes having upon turning on the computer either plugged in or from cold boot it will pass the post screen and start to load windows somethines it will get to the log in screen and bsod sometimes it will bsod just before, its always a diffrent error which makes it tricky to solve, also his ram which should run at 2666mhz is stuck at 2133mhz any kind of change leads to no post and a yellow led on the q code which indicates ram issues.
    i have tried everything i can to try and solve the issues which include driver updates and windows updates, checking all cables to be sure they are connected properly, i've tried other sets of ram a 3600mhz kit which i told him to set to 3200mhz max as ryzen donst like fast ram. but what every i and he have tried the pc wont work.

    the only thing we havent tried is his psu this may be the achelies heel to be honest as he's only running a 450w model from around 5 years ago, i'm pretty sure its that, thats the problem but any help is welcomed

    thanks
     
  2. Plec

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 19, 2003

    Posts: 11,414

    If that's a poor brand/model PSU that's probably the issue - what is it?

    I would normally advise you to try and update the BIOS - but your stability issues make this very unwise.

    Your best test would be to try a known working quality/branded 450w+ PSU - ideally 550W+.

    Have you tried running 1 stick of memory and the rotating with other stick?

    He would need to test at 2933MHz for stability testing - or similar to his own spec.
     
  3. AthlonXP1800

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 28, 2014

    Posts: 2,664

    Location: Scotland

    Try flash latest BIOS 2202 to see if it help stability that will fix BSOD issue.

    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-B450-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/

    Accorded to Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB spec it required 400W PSU minimum so your friend 450W PSU probably will be fine good enough for a MATXGTX 1060 6GB, Ryzen 5 2600X, 2 memory sticks and 2 SSDs.

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/10series/geforce-gtx-1060/#specs
     
  4. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    he's got a cm 450w gold from corsair it's pretty old to be fair but checking voltages all were relly good under load and idle in hwinfo 64, regarding the ram anything above 2133mhz stops the pc from posting, we have tried one stick and still the same

    he's already flashed the bios to the latest 2202 and updated all drives he can but the issue is still present, after the bios update the ram will not work above 2133mhz still, i have a 650w gold vs corsair unit to test over the weekend plus a 8gb set of lpx ram at 2400mhz.

    i didnt mention before he bought all the above from a well known company in the bolton area and my freind said he sent it back a while ago due to not working and the said company carried out testing (installing windows) and said all was good so sent the goods back to him, upon re building its still not working right
     
  5. Plec

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 19, 2003

    Posts: 11,414

    So, the one major component not tested within the new build was the PSU? If so, your 650W Corsair is a vital test.

    That said - did the company confirm that they tested the system with memory above 2133MHz ? If not then their test is invalid.

    If your PSU doesn't make a difference, I would test with only the new components attached - leave all other drives unattached (simulate the company's test). See if you can replicate their build - with your PSU and test.

    If it remains stable i would also reflash the BIOS - or at least clear the CMOS and reapply settings. (although i would only have one stick installed and at 2133MHz if attempting a reflash - and obviously done via BIOS only.).
     
  6. EsaT

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 5,619

    Location: Finland

    There's no some 450W "CM" 80+ Gold Corsair.
    450W 80+ Gold models are from CS serie and RM and both have mostly C(r)apXons in secondary.
    RM even throwing even worser Jun Fu into mix.
    So cooked up crap capacitor PSU is definitely suspect.

    I assume he didn't ship ship his own parts back for testing?


    Sorry to tell, but that motherboard is complete marketing scam.
    Who ever devised it should be staked to ground in front of army ants to be eaten from alive.

    According to "The Stilt's" testing already 2600X can push its CPU VRM to limits when using Precision Boost Overdrive.
    Google translate actually does quite understandable job for the most important part.
    Despite the power efficiency and temperature measurements being performed during the Prime95 stress test, the power supply of the Asus and Gigabyten motherboards was either overheated or exposed to dangerous temperatures already during the X264 video pack when using the standard Ryzen 7 2700X processor with standard settings. Asus power supply temperature protection was activated after just over 12 minutes of stress, and Gigabyte's power supply reached 101 degrees below 20 minutes of stress. With the standard Ryzen 5 2600X processor, both motherboards work without problems, but the activation of the Precision Boost Override was still too much on both motherboards.
    https://www.io-tech.fi/artikkelit/testissa-amd-b450-emolevyt-asrock-asus-gigabyte-msi/

    Best thing would be unscrewing that VRM cooling sabotaging IO cover scam to improve VRM's cooling some.
     
  7. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    oh thats not encouraging news to here, when we downlaoded hwifo64 we looked at the voltages but i know that that program should be able to tell the mobo temps also, the one thing i didnt look at doh!
    when his pc gets into windows its fine most of the time, games will work and the pc will behave as it should, the problem is during startup, thats were almost all the bsod occour, going around this weekend to have another look but will definatly check this and if that is a problem i'll get him to send it back and shop elseware.
    lastly before i forget he has a nzxt h500 and has a top and rear 120mm fans which are very close to the vrm area so cooling there should be good?
     
  8. EsaT

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 5,619

    Location: Finland

    PC working after getting over initial problems can be associated with bad capacitors.
    It's really ironic that while heat is the worst enemy of capacitor endurance, bad/failing capacitors can start working just enought after having warmed up.
    That was actually often observable in old CRTs, with image not being stable/wrong size after power on, but stabilizing with warming up.

    So that's one reason to suspect bad PSU.

    Ambient temperature of course has effect to temperature of all components, but that IO cover fad scam sabotages Vcore VRM's cooling.
    (that top heatsink is for Vsoc VRM)
    So if different PSU makes PC work I would recommend taking motherboard out from case and carefully removing that IO cover trash to store it in cabinet.
    It should be held by two screws on backside of motherboard near its back edge.
    Screws nearer CPU socket are for holding VRM heatsinks:
    https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/rog_strix_b450_f_gaming_review,5.html
     
  9. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    Many thanks for the help, i have a corsair vs 650w spare which i will be using for testing if all goes well he'll need a good 550w -650w gold rated
    (not a vs though), if the vrm under the io sheild is suffering then i will tell him that it needs to go, if he says no well back to the retailer it goes for a diffrent model.

    will update as soon as i've gone around to test all of this :)

    lastly would a bad psu stop the ram from running at rated xmp/docp settings?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  10. EsaT

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 5,619

    Location: Finland

    Unstable voltages/too much ripple could cause pretty much any kind symptoms.
    That Corsair VS is another cheap level PSU, but if it was "retired" in time and working condition it should work for testing.
    (though if just stored in some box and not used for say five years capacitors can degrade)


    Bitfenix Formula is what I would consider as minimum level and with quality capacitors has good chances for enduring longer than warranty.
    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=bitfenix+formula
    Seasonic Focus Plus is best priced for fully modular 10 year warranty PSU.
    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=seasonic+focus+gold


    Out of AMD motherboards MSI has overall the best VRMs.
    Asus and Gigabyte share the last spot with lots of crappy four phase VRMs with single high side FET.
    They even use cheaper and worser FETs than MSI.
    Even doubled components (sharing current and heat output) three phase VRM of Asrock is stronger.
    https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html

    Asus boards using IR power stages are again good, like B450-F's "relative" X470-F having only step behind top level VRM of AM4 mobos.
    Maybe coming Zen2 boards finally have more widely good modern VRMs...
    Even if not built for overclocking level, integrated power stage VRMs produce less waste heat than separate high and low side FETs making cooling easier.

    Hopefully not just expense of price.
    If I ever meet those marketroids doing decisions I'll certainly carefully explain to them in Lee R Ermey style that they're piles of worthless **** and should drop that RGB and plastic garbage and use that money instead to real quality.
    Though in case of Asus teaching them "bowing and how to kiss floor" would be more fitting with the amount of scamming they're doing.
     
  11. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    the vs i have for testing was bought new around a month ago for my nephews new pc i built, it's only being used for testing to find out if thats the problem, if so my freind will look around for a sutable replacment 550 - 650w region, i'll keep in mind bitfenix and seasonic proberly the latter as seasonic make some awsome units.
     
  12. Sweetloaf

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 5, 2004

    Posts: 6,392

    Location: Southport

    Does that board have onboard gfx? If the gpu draws too much then it'll be hard to isolate issues elsewhere until you rule it out. If it doesn't do you have an old low power Gpu to test with? Also as stated before try the ram sticks individually.
     
  13. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    the board has dp and hdmi but ryzen dosnt have a on board gfx, my freind runs a palit gtx 1060 gb card that is at stock settings, he's already tried one stick of ram and that works at 2133mhz but any higher either in single or dual channel mode the ram wont go above 2133mhz (the pc refuses to post at any higher speed)
     
  14. EsaT

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 5,619

    Location: Finland

    No integrated GPU in Ryzen.
    And if GTX 1060 can make PSU crap voltages that PSU is anyway waiting to fail completely at any moment.
     
  15. BongoHunter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 14, 2014

    Posts: 1,315

    What slots is the memory occupying?
     
  16. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    at the moment 2*8gb stick of corsair lpx 2666mhz running at 2133mhz in slot 2 and 4, in signle channel mode he can pick any of them and the pc will work, but only at 2133mhz, if the ram goes above this the pc will not post either in dual or single channel mode, i pointed out in a earlier post he has already updated the bios to version 2202 to save any confusion
     
  17. BongoHunter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 14, 2014

    Posts: 1,315

    What voltage is the memory at? My PC with Corsair LPX is unstable at anything und 1.35v
     
  18. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    i'm fairly sure once docp has been set the voltage was around 1.3v mark could have been higher to be fair, i'll know soon enough armed with the wealth of info provided by other forum members i'm sure to fix it :)
     
  19. wookiee87

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 28, 2017

    Posts: 291

    Hi all well 4hrs later and it could be down to faulty ram.

    i popped around to my freinds and when i got there he was using a quad set of dominators i lent him, he said as soon as my set were in all the issues vanaished, which was a good sign, but i looked in the bios and the ram was set to 2133mhz, long way of the 3600mhz the kit can do.
    i had a look at the cpu (2600x) in the bios as saw it was at auto settings, i manually set 36 core multiplier and set the voltage down to a modest 1.35v from auto i then proceeded to enable docp and manualy set the dominators back to 2933mhz with timmings of 15,17,17,35 1t command rate, i increased the voltage from 1.2 to 1.35v and exited, the pc past the post screen and booted into windows with out any problems and was able to play a good 1hr of the divison with no issues at all. i had the vs 650w corsair unit installed at this point as i wanted to rule out the 450 being the issue.

    i then proceded to re install the 450w unit and run the same test above with the cpu at 3.6ghz and dominator ram at 2933mhz the pc posted and was able to boot into windows without issue, as before the division ran flawlessly

    after all of the above was done i powered down the pc and entered the bios to set the ram at default as the next test was his 2666mhz kit, when this was installed the pc powered on but for some reason it failed to post with the red cpu light on the mobo, i powered down and up again this time the pc posted but with a overclock eror and to press f1, upon entering the bios the ram was at 2133hmz and voltages wre 1.2v for the dimms.

    we also tried each dimm sepratley of the 2666mhz kit my freind bought, and each test we did from cold boot worked no issues, windows loaded in fine

    i enabled docp and set the ram to 2666mhz and the timmings were 16,18,18,36 1t command rate, to be sure i adjusted the voltage from 1.2 to 1.35v and exited the bios, the pc posted and procceded to boot into windows, but juring this stage the disk check popped up before windows, before this we hadn't selecetd windows to do this which we both found odd, once disk check completed it got into windows and was able to play the division once again.

    throught out the testing we had hwinfo 64 running to mesure total power draw of everything, once my frend saw this he relised he needs a new psu which he's eyeing up a corsair rx white 750w gold fully modular psu to complement his white build.

    i told him after he gets the new psu to keep a sharp eye on the pc because if the bsod issues continue it'll most properly be down to his ram.
    We aslo keep an eye on the vrms on the board and during all of the testing they were luke warm to the touch, my freind has really good airflow inside his case

    what do you think?