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French immigration "The politically correct have caused too much havoc in this country."

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Lord-Jaffa, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: Nov 22, 2005

    Posts: 35,571

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    no more disgusting than the economic migrants and syrian kids with beards and their families being given preferential treatment whilst out own citizens are raiding food banks and living on the streets.
     
  2. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 14,678

    Location: Lincs

    The only objection by efish and inogen was the accusation that illegal immigrants were fast tracked into social housing, you then commented on their posts, ergo the discussion is about that aspect of the claim. Any reading between the lines and moving the discussion on to legal immigrants/refugees etc is shifting the goalposts.

    No, I wasn't being hypocritical, that would have been to try and pass anecdotal evidence off as universal! But I highlighted it was anecdotal. And anyway, it was actually conceding that immigrants can be weighted higher than locals for housing (for what I believe to be justifiable reasons), which is actually backing up Scorts point, whilst simultaneously pointing out the exaggeration of his to include illegal immigrants.

    If I wanted to be a hypocrite, I wouldn't have even posted that snippet and just continued to argue against Scort in general, because what I posted didn't 'back up my bias'
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  3. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073

    The dramatic rise in people using food banks is directly related to the government sanctioning the unemployed leaving them with zero income. That could be resolved its not related to lack of funds but the desire to punish.

    We do not invest in building new homes, to see immigration as the magic bullet which will resolve these issues is not the case.

    Its not political correctness or immigration that has lead to food banks, chronic under-funding of the health services or homelessness and lack of affordable homes being built.

    These are political choices that have been decades in the making.

    To resolve these issues would require a fundamental change in political attitudes, politicians taking ownership of the issues rather than seeking someone- else to blame.

    Even with zero immigration we would have a population that is living longer and a housing supply that would be under- strain as our leaders have refused to invest in housing for decades and still refuse to do so.

    As long as a stick stick and more stick approach is taken to those who find themselves out of work food- banks and homelessness will still exist.
     
  4. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    Reducing the amount of people coming in to the country would still solve a lot of issues though. We're having to spend a lot of money on migrants instead of the people already here.

    We wouldn't need more and more houses if we didn't have people flooding in constantly. We can't keep building houses and destroying green space forever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  5. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    At the next French election the Front National will win more votes than before.

    The ivory tower news media won't be addressing why the rise. They will just be attacking them. Nothing is getting solved and the problems continue.
     
  6. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,965


    Propaganda, endless lies form right-wing media, ignorance, lies by le Pen, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia - the reason for Front Nationals existence is well known.

    And yes, as long as dire media feed ignorant racists then the problems wont be resolved.
     
  7. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    God how many times do you need corrected on this point? **** sakes.

    The immigration is to pay for a growing oldie population that expects to live 40 odd years doing nothing, reducing the immigration from the EU (which already has occurred) means increasing less "desirable" applicants from further afield, as frankly they're much more likely to be in the low-paid service sector, they are inherently not going to plug that funding gap.

    Houses are ultimately down to the UK government, the ***** you voted for.
     
  8. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    But like I said, we can't keep expanding forever and the UK is already pretty full. So something must change to reduce our alleged reliance on migrants.
     
  9. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    Literally not full at all, not physically, not economically and seemingly not socially considering no one is angry at the government for not using controls they've had since the EU's inception to slow it down.

    Everything can be solved with forced construction (companies are sitting on land, make it enviable to do so) and not destroying public services on some mission to destroy the state.
     
  10. neviditelny

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 15, 2015

    Posts: 944

    Maybe in the local elections but I thought foreigners weren't allowed to vote in the parliamentary elections unless they have become UK citizens?
     
  11. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    The FN are getting more votes in France because Macron is losing control of the country. Which is the same reason other nationalist parties are also gaining a greater vote share at each election.

    The right-wing media have never liked nationalist parties as they are an electoral threat to them. But we're seeing the traditional right-wing parties decline and be exposed so its opening the way for more extreme elements to come forward.

    Which was always going to happen these days because centrist ideas are looked down upon, so people on the far left and far right are gaining more support.
     
  12. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    Well France deserves it what they'll inevitably get out of it, failure.
     
  13. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,287

    Its full socially, economically you will never fill it EVER.

    National parks full to the Brim, leisure facility creaking at the seems, road network in tatters and standstill at peak times, train network in tatters, hence HS2. The UK is small, small in landmass and since the 80s small in mindset with a LONDON takes all attitude and all arrows point to London.
     
  14. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,874

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Thought I was in GD!
     
  15. FishFluff

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2003

    Posts: 4,935

    Location: Deepest, darkest Leeds

    There's nothing 'alleged' about it. You can either reduce immigration or you can stop paying for pensions/social care for the over 70s. If there's an alternative then no one on the planet has thought of it yet and we're far from the only country with this problem. Japan are the canary in the coal mine for us on this one. Ageing population, < 2 kids per couple birthrate and a reluctance to accept immigrants. At least they have a culture which encourages looking after elderly relatives. The UK is a very different place culturally, despite having a lot of other similarities with Japan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  16. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    Japan also has a culture of not tolerating scroungers, scumbags, criminals, or obesity. Which is something they don't have to spend vast amounts of money on unlike us.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  17. C64

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007

    Posts: 12,172

    Location: London

    Here they get put up in budget hotels at maximum charge to the tax payer they pay 0 electricty get 3 meals a day and get £35 a week cash thats more money total than regular citizens get

    in fact if I took myself to the council and was homeless id be given a list of hostels and told to jog on, strange how they always find money and hotel rooms for migrants though
     
  18. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073

    Japan has a very low rate of obesity but like the rest of Asia is experiencing a massive spike in childhood obesity and increased health spending is predicted across Asia.

    Health issue here is due to lower food costs and increased wealth rather than moral decline so moral panic and outrage may not be the answer.

    Many ultra conservative nationalists in the late 17th century were opposed to industrialization and modern capitalism as they thought the import of evil foreign produce would lead to the moral and physical decline of the aristocracy.

    Not concerned about the mass of the population as they were also anti- democratic so an increase in wealth and living condition of the working class and middle class was viewed as a threat, the rabble on the make, scum attempting to live a life to which they were not entitled.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  19. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,196

    Well, in Japan no one will hire you if your fat because the company can get fined if employees are found to be unfit (a good idea I think). So maybe some kids do have a problem now, but they will have to sort themselves out quickly once they get older.
     
  20. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    You mean refugees... we're obliged to help if they're found to be legitimate, almost everyone else (EU or non-EU immigrants) is in private accommodation, like most young people, without access to most state aid of any sort and a net tax payer...