*** General TVs Talk Thread ***

[jpaul]

read through the avforums shootout thread , as commented, the calibration may have levelled the difference between the oleds,
I still haven't seen a list their test pieces ... just the use of the GOT sample with the low bitrate/potential macro-blocking,
or elaboration on what the bright room test was.

seemed unjustified the critique of Vincent (rebuffed in his video) .. people complaining panasonic didn't win ... but the score margin is so small. !
https://www.avforums.com/threads/hdtv-test-2019-blind-shootout.2244249/page-3

 

[Grim5]

There are people on there arguing about which oled has the best sound... like anyone who buys a 4000 pound tv isn’t going to plug in speakers/soundbar

 

[Nexus18]

Controlled conditions means nothing, because controlled conditions for them are just one environment setup. Where it will actually be in your home is something else, and that will dramatically affect the result. Your window setup, your curtains, time of day, lights/positioning etc & etc. To say nothing of chosen footage, which can also dramatically affect what looks good on what TV. If there was so much objectivity to these people then they would all get the same results, and crown the same TVs. Curious that it doesn't go that way, and different groups of even such "professionals" end up picking different TVs as winners, depending on who hosts the shootout.

As for "professional calibrator" part, gimme a break. These are the same people who would for years pick TVs which crushed shadow detail like no tomorrow over TVs with slight blooming that didn't - and think nothing of it, as if black & near-black detail was suddenly irrelevant! To say nothing of all the near-defect level of flaws (banding, streaking, uniformity issues of a dirt diaper and on and on it goes) for which they barely wrote a footnote but saw no reason not to shower said TVs with awards & praise. It's clear they want to have a job & that means compromising their credibility because they're not gonna call out their benefactors.

The only piece of credible info they ever gave was whatever calman reported, but otherwise? Nah.

Except once again, the people who work in the industry for colour grading films, tv shows etc. and so on even backup the likes of Vincents' and the other experts findings....

Just one example:

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-65cz950-4k-uhd-oled-review.11860

Mike Sowa (pictured above with the CZ950) who is best known for his work on films such as Oblivion and Insurgent, has been drafted in to help tune the CZ950 to the industry standards for Rec.709 (and 90% of DCI) playback and especially for the capabilities of High Dynamic Range (HDR) material

Also, Vincent has stated many times before that due to his critique, he often finds it hard to get review samples and has to rely in Crampton and Moore in order to be able to carry out his reviews, comparisons and so on.

 

[Grim5]

Vincent decides to do his own OLED burn in test.

He bought a 2018 LG E8, then put the TV through 3800 hours of content with the TV on for 20 hours a day, followed by 4 hours off in standby mode.

The TV played varying content including content with static logos for hours at a time - varying content which simulates normal household use case. They played sports like cricket games with large static UIs, many TV shows with static logos, letterbox movies etc.

And after 6 months and 3800 hours, the OLED tv shows 0% burn in and 0% temporary image retention.

And for those who think he is biased - he used his own money to buy the test TV, it was not donated or loaned by any company.

He also made a good point, which is that demo TV's in stores are usually shut down at the wall when the store closes - so they never get a chance to refresh.

 

[Nexus18]

But but but........ OLED suffers burn in zOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








My E7 must be near 3000 hours now and still not a single sign either.

 

[mmj_uk]

You still have to deal with retention occasionally in normal use and as I've said before the biggest drawback for me with OLED is 150nits of peak brightness on a 100% white screen, when I had my plasma it used to annoy the hell out of me when a screen that is intended to be pure white turned to some dirty grey colour.

There are no perfect TV's at the moment but I think I'd prefer whiter whites over blacker blacks, it's going to be a personal preference for everyone.

 

[Kobi]

TV Guru's!

Couple of quick questions. Absolutely loving the fact the new samsung tv's have the new apple tv app and every other app. this means i could get rid of my apple tv box. At my parents, dad's went and bought a new el cheapo samsung 4k tv, it has all the apps too, but only one remote - amazing! I noticed the QE43Q60R has 2 remotes? ones a smart...ish one? Can the tv still be controlled with the normal remote like my parents one? or would i need to use both? Kinda defeats the purpose if you need to use both remotes, might as well keep the apple tv if so.

Next question, same again with the QE43Q60R. So according to richer sounds, the tv has 2 tuners and the ability to add a usb hard drive for recording. Would i be correct in saying the tv's 2 tuners are the aerial and satellite? Or does it mean i can chuck an aerial in and record one channel while watching another?

Hopefully those make sense.

 

[Radox-0]

Are OLEDs expecting to get brighter at all? Auditioned the 65 C8 from a friend while he was out the country and while I loved it, have a very bright room so went down the QLED route which I love and works better for me. Would be nice to see benefits of OLED but brighter or are we looking at waiting for Micro-LED at this point for benefits of both worlds?

TV Guru's!

Couple of quick questions. Absolutely loving the fact the new samsung tv's have the new apple tv app and every other app. this means i could get rid of my apple tv box. At my parents, dad's went and bought a new el cheapo samsung 4k tv, it has all the apps too, but only one remote - amazing! I noticed the QE43Q60R has 2 remotes? ones a smart...ish one? Can the tv still be controlled with the normal remote like my parents one? or would i need to use both? Kinda defeats the purpose if you need to use both remotes, might as well keep the apple tv if so.

Next question, same again with the QE43Q60R. So according to richer sounds, the tv has 2 tuners and the ability to add a usb hard drive for recording. Would i be correct in saying the tv's 2 tuners are the aerial and satellite? Or does it mean i can chuck an aerial in and record one channel while watching another?

Hopefully those make sense.

One is a smart remote and other your normal remote. Can use either remote without the other no problems. Smart remote is pretty intuitive and easy to use though once you get used to things and also has a built in microphone to allow you to search things by speaking into it.

In terms of dual runners here you are https://www.samsung.com/hk_en/suppo...y-dual-tuners-or-twin-tuners-in-a-samsung-tv/

A Samsung Smart TV that contains 'dual' or 'twin' tuners allows you to watch either two Freeview or two Freesat channels at the same time.

You can watch two different channels using the PIP (picture in picture) feature (which divides up your TV screen between the two channels) or you can watch one channel on the TV and another on a tablet.

You could also record the second channel's programme on a USB stick or other hard drive using the second tuner.

 

[Kobi]

@Radox-0 What a champion. Cheers buddy!

 

[Grim5]

Are OLEDs expecting to get brighter at all? Auditioned the 65 C8 from a friend while he was out the country and while I loved it, have a very bright room so went down the QLED route which I love and works better for me. Would be nice to see benefits of OLED but brighter or are we looking at waiting for Micro-LED at this point for benefits of both worlds?

You will need to wait for MicroLED if you are not willing to darken your room. Samsung is moving to selling OLED in the next year because MicroLED is so far away.
You will be stuck with LED panels for several years unless you are prepared to darken your room, because the only alternative is OLED.

I would not expect OLEDs to get much brighter unless there is a technological breakthrough.
OLED panel brightness is limited by how much voltage you can safely push through each pixel.
It's no doubt that all manufacturers have tested brighter OLED's, and it's likely that the result is the panel dies prematurely.

 

[jpaul]

I've not read up but the dual freesat/freeview - they don't seem to be a big premium but -
do you need a 2nd lnb connection - guess so,
also can you schedule a dual recording easily (when you're not in attendance) and what kind of access do you get to the recording from a 2nd tv say, versus a humax box, would be nice if you could get an unecrypted recording off of it onto a NAS say, for perpetuity.

He also made a good point, which is that demo TV's in stores are usually shut down at the wall when the store closes - so they never get a chance to refresh.

thought it was rather a cheap shot and rtings test doesn't have that issue.
moreover wondered in there is any panel binning so the E8 is more resilient, after reading the flat pnales discussion on the pan oled

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1566802297

It's different. Panasonic has taken the OLED panel off of the production line earlier in the process and applied custom power management and cooling. It's the same panel but with modifications to drive it harder.

there is also the ageing issue that neither rtings nor vincent address, degardation just due to ageing of the organic materials independant of use somewhat, like the ageing of rubber components in a car say,
when you test mobile phone silicon for ageing you can simulate ageing by either high voltage or temperature, just running the phone 20hours a day doesn't have the same effect, so there's no substitute for elapsed real time. c6/b6 issues are really best indication.

 

[Grim5]

Unfortunately the panels have moved along since those days. A c6 panel under microscope looks rather different to a c9.
So any issues could be attributed to early tech teething and it’s going to take some time to see if the hardware has matured

Hopefully Vincent continues his test for another 6 months at least

 

[jpaul]

like ps has said in the past I similarly expect a tv to last 5/6yrs+ finally relegated to the bedroom, so running 2 in parallel
... irrespective of tech changes/improvements (not themselves accompanied by explicit guarantee) if the c6/b6 generation are panning out without excessive problems that will bound the c9/b9 longevity .. so any fears would be satiated.

edit:
I am interested by anyone experience with tv usb(sd?) recording

I've not read up but the dual freesat/freeview - they don't seem to be a big premium but -
do you need a 2nd lnb connection - guess so,
also can you schedule a dual recording easily (when you're not in attendance) and what kind of access do you get to the recording from a 2nd tv say, versus a humax box, would be nice if you could get an unecrypted recording off of it onto a NAS say, for perpetuity.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

November through till March is usually the best time to buy a new TV, you get a current model at large discounts over the release price.

I'd say Jan/Feb if you want a very good price but don't want stock to run out.

Stock tends to get low in Feb and most places run out by March of the in demand tv's.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Vincent decides to do his own OLED burn in test.

He bought a 2018 LG E8, then put the TV through 3800 hours of content with the TV on for 20 hours a day, followed by 4 hours off in standby mode.

The TV played varying content including content with static logos for hours at a time - varying content which simulates normal household use case. They played sports like cricket games with large static UIs, many TV shows with static logos, letterbox movies etc.

And after 6 months and 3800 hours, the OLED tv shows 0% burn in and 0% temporary image retention.

And for those who think he is biased - he used his own money to buy the test TV, it was not donated or loaned by any company.

He also made a good point, which is that demo TV's in stores are usually shut down at the wall when the store closes - so they never get a chance to refresh.

the key point is varied content.

if you watch varied content then yes go out and buy an OLED.

if however you are using it as a PC monitor then buy LCD.

 

[gord]

if however you are using it as a PC monitor then buy LCD.

But even a PC monitor has varied content. My primary interface is Chrome, but I switch between Office/Adobe applications, WhatsApp, full-screen video too. Unless you really only use one application, then the usage can't be considerably different from the test with static logos on the stream?

Also, from my other research the OLED burn is supposedly cumulative. So varying the content between static doesn't really "refresh" the screen. I find this whole OLED static content burn factor to be really hit and miss.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

But even a PC monitor has varied content. My primary interface is Chrome, but I switch between Office/Adobe applications, WhatsApp, full-screen video too. Unless you really only use one application, then the usage can't be considerably different from the test with static logos on the stream?

Also, from my other research the OLED burn is supposedly cumulative. So varying the content between static doesn't really "refresh" the screen. I find this whole OLED static content burn factor to be really hit and miss.

yes but thinks like the taskbar will stay on screen abnormal amounts of time. It's not something I would use an OLED for.

 

[hardkore]

Hey everyone.

I'm looking to replace my old TV, i'm looking at going from 55" to 65". My budget is around £1000 although i'd like to try and stay to around £800.

I've got my heart set on a LG 65UM7660PLA, i really like the smart features and the magic remote is very cool. Anyone got any experiences? I'm torn if to wait until near xmas and try and pick up a nanocell version but i've not been able to see the two side by side.

I'm not a big time movie watcher but i do appreciate a good picture. My expectations are inline with my budget so i'm not expecting OLED blacks or 1000nit brightness.

 

[mmj_uk]

I caught this video earlier, a comparison between Samsung's flagship Q90R QLED and OLED. The scenes towards the end in the king's chamber(?) really exposes QLED's weaknesses. I've been critical of OLED brightness limiter but I think the blooming and inconsistent black level would annoy me even more. I would rather have a LCD TV with poorer black level but a consistent black level and no blooming. It just looks terrible when half the screen is jet black and the other half which is meant to be the same darkness has a blue glow. When you factor in that the Q90R is circa £2300 and you can pick up a 2018 OLED for £1200 it's surely a no brainer *if* you're willing to risk things like burn in and have to nanny your TV a bit.

 

[woppy101]

I caught this video earlier, a comparison between Samsung's flagship Q90R QLED and OLED. The scenes towards the end in the king's chamber(?) really exposes QLED's weaknesses. I've been critical of OLED brightness limiter but I think the blooming and inconsistent black level would annoy me even more. I would rather have a LCD TV with poorer black level but a consistent black level and no blooming. It just looks terrible when half the screen is jet black and the other half which is meant to be the same darkness has a blue glow. When you factor in that the Q90R is circa £2300 and you can pick up a 2018 OLED for £1200 it's surely a no brainer *if* you're willing to risk things like burn in and have to nanny your TV a bit.

Yeah the only lcd tv that had no noticeable blooming was Sony’s ZD9 which was considered the pinnacle of lcd technology with its backlight master drive and probably still the best out there after 3 years, the pioneer of lcd if you will.