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General Election 2015

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Stretch, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. El Capitano

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,577

    Dolphi, You say it's important to consider all measures, but then use only one to try and prove your point. The debt is also almost never referred to in absolute terms, but in a normalised term, since a few billion in debt would be a problem for a country like Iceland, but almost nothing for a country like the UK.

    When people talk about the national debt over time, they almost never use absolute figures unless they're trying to mislead by throwing large looking numbers around to boggle the mind. We don't compare today's debt level with the 1940s debt level in absolute terms because that would be absured.

    When talking about relative measures, whilst there is some variation, it isn't that large and changes in GDP do actually affect our ability to pay it back, or not. You repeatedly highlight on this forum that the UK almost never manages to raise more than 40% of GDP as tax. You never use absolute terms for that figure. That is because it would be absurd and become invalid pretty much the next year. We can't easily compare absolute terms, which is why we normalise to an adjusted figure or use something relative.

    TL;DR the absolute figure is almost never useful in a comparative discussion.
     
  2. Nevakonaza

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 7, 2009

    Posts: 4,603

    Location: Stourbridge,West Mids.

    How long do you think before more company's start taking on people with 0 hour contracts just so when things get rough,They can simply say..don't need you again. :rolleyes:

    As for the young,I never said that you did..
     
  3. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,572

    Location: Plymouth

    tax is almost always collected on a relative basis, gilts are issued on an absolute basis, so that is a valid reason for different approaches.

    do note that I am not advocating only using absolute figures, as you appear to be doing for relative values. I am arguing that it is valid to use both appropriately, such as when looking at short time periods where the impact of inflation is minimal and assessing changes in government borrowing, which is after all funded by selling absolute value bonds and gilts.
     
  4. El Pew

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 1, 2009

    Posts: 1,053

    Tax receipts are absolutely linked to inflation, see VAT, income tax and corporation tax which will all increase with inflation (all other things being equal). Something like one third of gilts are index-linked where the coupon and principal are both linked to inflation.

    It's really bizarre that you're so fixated on nominal prices, pretty much everyone in economics and finance works on real rates as a matter of course.
     
  5. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 65,624

    A lot of companies are increasingly moving towards mostly lower or zero hour contracts with fewer and fewer positions that are actually proper full time ones which makes it a lot harder to live off that job.

    For instance the company I used to work for while a student (late 90s) had around about 250 staff on 37.5 hour contracts, <100 on part time/weekend contracts (8-20 hours) in the warehouse - now only the management/supervisor positions are full time (less than 30 staff) the main bulk of the general warehouse staff are on 12 or 15 hour contracts (though they might be working double that) and upto 100 or so are on zero hours.

    I found it quite telling that the answer most of the parties gave to the question basically about inherited burden in regards to living standards and prospects was basically about making sure young people had the opportunities to work their way out of it (probably by the time they retired) by hard graft if they worked super hard and crawled their way out by tooth and nail from a situation they hadn't even made for themselves and very few gave answers where they would look at societies responsibility as a whole to improve the situation for everyone (though I guess thats partly due to getting dangerously close to socialism). By far the lib dems and UKIP had the best responses to it though while the lib dems had a very balanced approach they obviously had no ideas how to actually implement it and UKIP had plenty of ideas for the same kind of approach but way over to the extreme side - a coalition of the 2 might actually theoretically produce a good result :S (or maybe not).
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  6. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,474

    Companies can anyway if the employment term is under two years, contract or no contract as long as they aren't doing it for discriminatory reasons.

    Banning zero hours doesn't solve that particular conundrum.
     
  7. Nevakonaza

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 7, 2009

    Posts: 4,603

    Location: Stourbridge,West Mids.

    Exactly the same at the company i work at,They re-constructed their team like 7 years ago.

    We had quite a few folks with 35 hours contracts and they made a lot redundant..Then after a certain period of time they took on more people but with less hours per contracts = More workers per shift so instead of them only having one staff member for a full 7 hour shift,They have 2x staff members for 3.5 hour shifts with both the staff members having a part time contract.

    And even though they definitely have the extra hours spare,and profits remain to be very good..they will not bump any of our contracts to 35 hours...they would rather get people to work over.

    So i can in the future see 0 hour contracts been an issue,because it gives the company ultimate movement and control,While leaving the little man (the worker) with absolutely no peace of mind.
     
  8. El Capitano

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,577

    That is seriously specious reasoning. Care to name a tax that is charged relative to GDP? And as far as gilts are concerned, the only time people care about the absolute costs are the buyer at the time of purchase and possibly the gilt-holder when doing accounting. For everybody else, in aggregate, they use a measure relative to something else because, shock horror, the absolute value by itself is not sufficient information to be useful.
    Actually, I'm advocating using relative values only for these things in this context.
    The cost of inflation over the past five years has not been minimal. The aggregate inflation over the course of this parliament has been somewhere around 18%. That is very far from minimal.
     
  9. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,722

    The Tories have resorted to discrediting Ed Miliband with the shocking revelations that ... he had sex with other women before he met his wife. So that's what they mean by a hung parliament. :D
     
  10. drs101

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 22, 2006

    Posts: 1,180

    that will prob do him some good in the polls, hardly a discredit, I think he has done a lot better than many expected so far, why they chose him over his brother is beyond me!
     
  11. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,167

    Wasn't it his wife that outed him? It was just third parties that put 2 and 2 together about the who and when?

    I agree it's not a big story, it reflects worse on the BBC editor who could conceivably have had some clash of responsibilities boffing one then the other of Brown's Treasury aides.

    Dime bar: conflict of interest is what I meant
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  12. Quartz

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 9,761

    Location: Aberdeen

    The issue is that the other woman was Stephanie Flanders who was at the time, you may recall, employed by the BBC as a presenter.
     
  13. DisrupTor75

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 30, 2009

    Posts: 2,513

    Location: Merseyside. UK

    nevermind.

    -edit- Dating an economics journalist while working at the treasury.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  14. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,722

    Good God, you mean he was dating women he met?
     
  15. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,435

    Location: La France

    Having seen Ed Milliband attempt to eat a bacon sarnie, I shudder to imagine what his O face might look like...
     
  16. Destination

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 31, 2009

    Posts: 19,458

    The exact face you didn't want to see.

    [​IMG]