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Poll: General Election 2019 voting intention - Dec 1st - 7th

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Rilot, Dec 2, 2019.

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Who will you vote for?

  1. Brexit

    5 vote(s)
    1.5%
  2. Conservative

    96 vote(s)
    29.4%
  3. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Green

    2 vote(s)
    0.6%
  5. Labour

    113 vote(s)
    34.7%
  6. Liberal Democrat

    84 vote(s)
    25.8%
  7. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  8. Sinn Fein

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  9. SNP

    12 vote(s)
    3.7%
  10. TIG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. UKIP

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  12. Other party

    4 vote(s)
    1.2%
  13. Independant

    3 vote(s)
    0.9%
  14. Spoil ballott

    4 vote(s)
    1.2%
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  1. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,689

    Location: Plymouth

    I advocate and support UBI in the form of negative income tax, where the marginal rate tends towards the flat rate as you progress up the income scale. I don't support flat tax in isolation of wider taxation and benefit reform.

    I certainly do not advocate removal of safety nets or support. Rather, I advocate an integrated tax and benefit setup, without arbitrary discrimination, random qualification criteria or punishing sanctions.

    You're essentially advocating that discrimination is ok if you believe it has a positive effect, the problem with that view is its the same view held by everyone who advocates arbitrary discrimination of every kind.
     
  2. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,450

    The report is from the US point of view. It doesn't mean the UK needs to accept it. We get our drugs from many sources, and it would be lunacy to agree to an agreement that we self restricted. How do you think Canada operates? They have lower medication costs than the US. Americans are even doing 'insulin runs' across the Canadian border to buy cheaper insulin. We're in a stronger position than Canada as we will still have a connection with the EU. The reason why American pharma prices are so high is because they are really in an unofficial cartel, there is zero competition inside the US.
     
  3. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,397

    That's exactly who I'd be going after, the top 5% thing seems more like virtue signalling to me (look we're doing something), there's no reason (that i can think of) to move money into off shore shell companies so if you're doing that you've probably got something to hide, however it's perfectly 'legal'.

    As an aside i remember seeing a chart that showed who got hit most from the 08 crash (can't find it now) and (iirc) it showed the people who got hit the most the top 90-99%, the superrich, the 99.X percenters actually saw their earning increase.
     
  4. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,450

    4 Brexit MEP's endorse the Conservative party.

    For Brexit - Vote Conservative" - Brexit Party MEPs
     
  5. Lord-Jaffa

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

    Posts: 6,021

    So the targeted facebook ads keep coming, some of the comments sections are very amusing, reading the absolute bias and blinkered opinions. This one was especially long winded, I wonder if anyone has the time to debunk or confirm each point on such posts.

    • Invited two IRA members to Parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
    • Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
    • Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
    • Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in Parliament.
    • Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
    • Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
    • Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
    • Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
    • Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
    • Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
    • Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
    • Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
    • Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
    • Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
    • Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
    • Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
    • Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
    • Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
    • Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
    •Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
    • Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
    • Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
    • Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
    • Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
    • Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
    • Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
    • Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
    • Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
    • Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
    • Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
    • Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
    • Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
    • Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
    • Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
    • Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
    • Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
    • Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
    • Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
    • Opposed shoot to kill.
    • Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
    • Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
    • Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
    • Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
    • Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
    • Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
    • Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
    •Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
    • Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
    • Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
    • Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
    • Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
    • Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
    • Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
    • Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
    • Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
    • Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
    • Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
    • Received endorsement from Hamas.
    • Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
    • Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
    • Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
    • Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
    • Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
    • Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
    • Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
    • Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
    • Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
    • Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
    • Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
    • Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
    • Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
    • Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
    • Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
    • Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
    • Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
    • Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
    • Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
    • Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
    • Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
    • Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
    • Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
    • Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
    • Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
    Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
    • Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
    • Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
    • Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
    • Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
    • Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
    • Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
    • Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
    • Voted against banning support for the IRA.
    • Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
    • Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
    • Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
    • Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
    • Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
    • Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
    • Voted against control orders.
    • Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.

    Seems someone doesnt like Corbyn!
     
  6. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,079

    Location: Aberdeen


    A lot of people in this tthread demonstrate a visceral hatred of anyone who dare so much as question the Left. Such behaviour really helps the Tories.
     
  7. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,416

    Useless, targeting people that are already voting for you is hilariously misguided. I fully support it.
     
  8. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 14,767

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    Shock as UKIP Episode 2: Attack of the Raging Stupids™ starts falling apart.

    Sorry, not shock. The other one. 'Deep lack of surprise'. Always confusing those.
     
  9. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,397

    Ah, OK. That clarifies things. :)
    No. I advocate 'discrimination' if it has an equalizing effect, i wouldn't call it 'discrimination' as it's not the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, it's quiet the opposite in fact, it's seeking to make the system just and not prejudicial. The system by the involvement of human within it already, and always has been, unjust or prejudicial so seeking to redress that unjust and/or prejudicial treatment isn't discrimination, it's the opposite of discrimination.
     
  10. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,390

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Stunning and brave!
     
  11. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 6,003

    You missed the point....

    Tax everyone more, but tax higher earners EVEN more.

    Its only the rhetoric of the right wing for X amount of years that call for low tax as it benefits them the most.
     
  12. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,265

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I know ;)

    Reality is that until quite recently the majority of taxes raised in the UK were for wars. The costs of running the country were low compared to the costs of wars.

    Funny when we talk of fiscal responsibility.
    When the Spanish armada were sailing along the south coast the UK/england couldn't afford to buy ammunition. One daring raid was enacted to steal ammunition.

    Prior to the income tax talked about above, most taxes were far more aligned to per head (poll tax) than variable based on ability to pay.

    My fav was always the window tax. Which you can still see evidence of even today.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax
     
  13. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,849

    Literally 100% of it is "I'm all right Jack", also known as "**** you, got mine". These people believe that if they don't have it nobody else should have it either, and at the same time that they earned what they've got so you have no right to take it away.
     
  14. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,849

    The analogy I have heard is of three men. The first man opens a pack of biscuits, hands one of them to the second man, then starts cramming the rest of the pack into his mouth as fast as he can while the third man tries to catch some falling crumbs. The first man pauses for a moment, turns to the second man and through a half-chewed mouthful says, "You'd better watch out for that guy - he wants to take your biscuit".
     
  15. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,265

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Yeah many versions of the same thing.

    Some of it is psycology I guess although I may be wrong.
    Convince people that earning £40k makes you successful and better than those below, to avoid questions along the lines of how the economy should generate an income of £60k per head, and where is all the excess going ;)
     
  16. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,849

    Corbyn is offering tax increases, as several rich posters in this thread will gladly tell you. A minor difference, to be sure, only the complete opposite of what you're saying.
     
  17. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,079

    Location: Aberdeen

    Both Corbyn and Johnson are offering money to their supporters. The manner in which they do it is irrelevant.
     
  18. terley

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,722

    Anyone know a site i can check my area (west lancashire) and check to see what the voting results where for the last election? Trying to decide whether or not i need to vote tactically
     
  19. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,825

    Mine was:

    60% Lib Dem
    20% Labour
    20% Green
     
  20. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,416

    The Brexit party aren't winning anything. May as well just vote for the Tories, at least their candidate will be less of a tit.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the polling is hiding BXP votes in areas where they cant vote for them. Though perhaps the pollsters are only asking them in seats where it's relevant. That does seem to be case, but with a caveat.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...partys-pullout-demonstrates-problem-pollsters

    Constituency polling was abandoned by Lord Ashcroft ultimately, only internal polling paid for by parties still exist, but of course as we've seen, they only show the seats they have the best chances in and not the seats they're at risk in... or they just don't bother telling the public whatsoever. Better to omit than commit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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