1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Poll: General Election 2019 voting intention - Dec 1st - 7th

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Rilot, Dec 2, 2019.

?

Who will you vote for?

  1. Brexit

    5 vote(s)
    1.5%
  2. Conservative

    96 vote(s)
    29.4%
  3. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Green

    2 vote(s)
    0.6%
  5. Labour

    113 vote(s)
    34.7%
  6. Liberal Democrat

    84 vote(s)
    25.8%
  7. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  8. Sinn Fein

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  9. SNP

    12 vote(s)
    3.7%
  10. TIG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. UKIP

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  12. Other party

    4 vote(s)
    1.2%
  13. Independant

    3 vote(s)
    0.9%
  14. Spoil ballott

    4 vote(s)
    1.2%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. danlightbulb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 14, 2005

    Posts: 2,481

    It was you who suggested UBI should cover basic needs for a fair system. The simple fact is that the cost of meeting basic needs will vary by region.

    Now, London needs low skill low paid workers like everywhere else does. If the UBI doesnt allow those people to live locally to their jobs then you end up with ferrying workers in on masse like some post apocolyptic film. You end up with segregation, the haves and have nots. The have nots being shipped in like slaves.

    Total recall remake. Elysium. Thats the world you seem to be implying would exist with your method of implementation.
     
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,666

    Location: Plymouth

    I fully support that men and women should be paid the same rate for the same role when they have equivalent skills and experience

    I disagree that, on aggregate, men and women should receive the same end result regardless of other differences.

    Likewise, I don't agree that the state should compensate people for the impact of the choices of those people on their lives.

    Your definition is entirely in line with my position. You just don't agree that you are creating unnecessary categorisations of people to then treat differently.

    Should the state treat two couples with one child differently from each other? That's the essence of it.
     
  3. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,224

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I dont think anyone has said your only option would be the free state internet. I see it working very much like the NHS and private health

    I say it because unfortunatly its frequently evidenced. Called it tarred by association if you will, far to frequently people try to spill racism hiding behind a thin veneer.

    I am not sure why an animal lover would go looking for video of animals being killed. I am an animal lover as well, but also a meat eater so I choose to not watch that stuff.
     
  4. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,913

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    What could the ISPs do to stop the plans? I get that this may not be a priority for most people but currently 7% of the Country have access to full fibre, that's compared to 91% of Spain. This might not be a major issue now but it's a bottleneck for a plethora of other policy areas. Want to reduce travel and increase productivity and wellbeing through flexible working? Only works with adequate connectivity. Want to promote high tech industry? They need connectivity. Want to decentralise industry from hubs like London and Cambridge? Guess what. Yep. Connectivity. This is a bit of a timebomb, we can't keep lagging behind our competition on this.

    On top of that there's research showing that competition in the ISP sector hasn't actually led to reduced costs. So our infrastructure has been privatised and is rubbish, our services have been privatised and are both rubbish and expensive, but yeah you're right why deal with the issues.

    On kosher and halal, are any of the other big parties suggesting abolishing the practice? If not why single out labour? I'm sure one of the hard right parties will pledge to do it so at least you can lend your vote to them if it's top of your policy list.

    No idea on the private school thing, outside of my interests, but if you want the future of the health sector to be as publicly owned as possible, then guess which party is most likely to have your back?
     
  5. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 45,867

    How Labour supporters react to anti semitism if they think that these things were said/done by Boris rather than Corbin.... strangely enough you don't seem to get "ermergherd right wing smears":

    3:16 is brilliant though - first he's on side when he thinks it's Boris then he comes out with some anti semitism himself when he gets told it's Corbyn... FFS! They actually start replying with antisemitism....



    It does seem they're mostly completely clueless about some of these allegations - ditto to the IRA stuff, that gets tossed aside by hardcore labour members as some nonsense "he was trying to to broker peace" etc... when clearly they're barely aware of the history of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  6. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,666

    Location: Plymouth

    London is already like that, for everyone not entirely dependent on the state.

    Ironically, the current benefits structure serves to supress wages at the bottom in London, and to transfer the burden for high cost of living from the employer to the taxpayer.

    Is that really the approach you want to sustain?
     
  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,224

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Now now don't be mean.

    I mean its about the same level of "defence" as the national grid going offshore for company registration
    Unless they are going to start striping all the pylons down and taking them offshore as well, their defence wont amount to much more than a legal challenge, (and a big sulk) ;)
     
  8. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,776

    Oh.

    That's not what you said at all.

    She's laughed at the idea of a debate on men's rights.

    You think she laughed at suicide and homelessness.

    How did you come to make that mistake?

    I google and the answer's apparent: the usual suspects - the right-wing tabloids - have carefully written up events linking the 2 different things, and they've succeeded in manipulating you into thinking exactly what they wanted you to.
     
  9. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,224

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Problem is if you do implement UBI, and yet dont flex it for location then your expecting the employer to cover this.
    Which will probably partly happen, but not with 100% efficicency

    The elephant in the room though is the non private sector employees.

    Do you give standard UBI and an enhanced pay to say nurses in London, do you give enhance UBI and standard pay, or go full retard and not expect there to be repeats of the issues we had before (and still exist to some extent) that basic UBI and standard pay in London means no one wants to do those jobs there due to cost of living.
    Whether the UBI is flexed or the pay is flexed, the tax payer still pays it so its just semantics

    To my mind UBI would need to be flexed to the say lowest cost within 1 hour, thats a reasonable expectation of people to look to minimise their costs, if they choose to live in the most expensive part it would be their choice.
    Otherwise how would you set it, national average, lowest national cost, what?
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,046

    Im an animal lover aswell which is why I cant eat them.

    I think we may have found three levels of animal lover here.

    Level 1 looks for vidoes of them being killed while still is able to eat them.

    Level 2 is willing to eat them so cant look for vidoes of them being killed (sound decision).

    Level 3 cant eat them and certainly doesnt go looking for videos of them being killed.

    Ive got to say that Usher seems to be a bit one dimensional with regards to animal slaughter and abuse. Some people are just arseholes. I saw a headline about cows being sexualy abused at a farm in the UK and now Ive had to read it.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...y-farm-punch-kick-hit-essex-nfu-a9215306.html
    I mean seriously.

    Its just how some people are its not about religion. Ima have to agree with Merc here it all seemed a slight bit racist. Or at least personal discimination about halal. In my eyes its all a pretty crappy way to treat animals.
     
  11. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,638

    Location: London

    Just saw that today, the switch, when they realise it's their dear leader Corbyn, is astonishing and disturbing especially when they suddenly start spewing antisemitic tropes immediately afterwards.
     
  12. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,913

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Even less in this case, if the ISPs started stripping out cable there'd be a big chap from Openreach behind them with a stick asking what the **** they thought they were about. :D. To be fair that didn't stop the Scallywags round my way throwing the village in which I live into digital darkness by stealing the same stretch of cable 3 times in a month. Maybe Virgin could recoup some losses by nicking cable from Openreach after all!

    All of this talk about drastic consequences from private industry, it all amounts to nothing when it comes down to it.
     
  13. pepp77

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 13, 2008

    Posts: 3,682

    Location: SE London Born and Bred

    I am voting Labour - but that is because I have to vote for my local MP and the labour one has done well by our area whilst he has been in, the others haven't suggested anything to not keep him in for our area.

    However that doesn't mean I would vote for Corbyn to be PM if given the choice of actually voting for the PM and not just my area MP!
     
  14. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,913

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Stop doing politics properly you monster! Go hang your head in shame and come back to us when you're willing to:

    a) vote for a party you hate to punish a party you despise
    b) vote for a man you don't trust because he seems alright and the other guy something something terrorist
    c) vote for an antisemite/general racist/misandrist/scot to stick it to an antisemite/general racist/misandrist/scot (delete as appropriate)

    :p
     
  15. danlightbulb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 14, 2005

    Posts: 2,481

    Im just struggling to see how you can retain good local essential jobs (like nursing, teaching) without having a more direct link to the local cost of living, as @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior says a few posts up.

    What would you consider the UBI to be?

    Real living wage is £9.30 Uk average, which is around £17k per year after tax and NI.

    What about the flat rate?
     
  16. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,645


    The flat tax rate would have to be at least 60-65% to cover this, likely higher.
     
  17. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,046

    The irony is that 70 Labour staffers or reports came out to critises Labours handling of antisemitism yet no Tories come out to critisis the Tories about their blatant racism except a few muslims. That alone gives me more faith in Labour than anything else. How that is not as big a story as Labours antisemitism is beyond me.

    Boris got asked if he was sorry for the burka comments yet would still probably not accept it was racist. So sorry but still not racist. Why sorry?
     
  18. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,224

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Which is one of my issues with UBI, assuming UBI gives enough to actually live on.
    Its going to be a really hard sell to get anyone to do a job just over UBI since if you loose the vast majority of the money to tax thats one hell of a disincentive.
    Because lets face it to really have UBI then we are going to need to have quite high tax on business, unless again, we go full commie ;)
     
  19. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 14,729

    Location: Hertfordshire

    [​IMG]
     
  20. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,403

    So do you condemn anti-semitism in the Labour party?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.