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Poll: General Election 2019 voting intention - Dec 1st - 7th

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Rilot, Dec 2, 2019.


Who will you vote for?

  1. Brexit

    5 vote(s)
  2. Conservative

    96 vote(s)
  3. DUP

    0 vote(s)
  4. Green

    2 vote(s)
  5. Labour

    113 vote(s)
  6. Liberal Democrat

    84 vote(s)
  7. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
  8. Sinn Fein

    1 vote(s)
  9. SNP

    12 vote(s)
  10. TIG

    0 vote(s)
  11. UKIP

    1 vote(s)
  12. Other party

    4 vote(s)
  13. Independant

    3 vote(s)
  14. Spoil ballott

    4 vote(s)
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  1. GordyR


    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 5,301

    Location: Essex

    I'm pretty sure that's been made abundantly clear has it not?

    Yes, you rushed to Johnson's defence over his negative joke at the expense of Muslim women who choose to wear the Burka, so I asked you if you would defend Jeremy Corbyn in the same way had he written a joke at the expense of Jews who choose to wear the Kippah.

    It's an obvious question to ask if as I did, you wish to determine if someone is acting in a tribal fashion based upon their bias, or if they are genuinely mounting a defence honestly and rationally.

    And given that it's a simple yes or no answer, it seems strange that you've had such difficulty in answering it.

    I'm not sure if that's your answer to the actual question I asked or not.

    If it is and you mean to say that you would defend Jeremy Corbyn in the manner that you've defended Johnson, then fair enough that's an honest and rational position; in which case by all means disregard my last sentence above and the rest of this response from now on.

    No one is deflecting from anything, I've merely asked you what your views are.

    I wasn't really interested in any video, my question was referencing something that you said, so I'm unsure why you would keep going on about a video instead of answering what was a rather simple question?

    Regardless, now that you've hinted as to what it was about, would I be correct in thinking that it demonstrates people:-

    1. Defending their chosen leader unjustifiably for saying/doing something.
    2. While condemning their opposition leader for doing the same thing.

    Forgive me, but that's precisely what my question was designed to ascertain; I wanted to know if that's something you were guilty of. I'm still not completely clear to be honest.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  2. Tony Edwards


    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,097

    Thats not really true is it?
  3. Murphy


    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,397

    Pretty funny watching dowie proclaim how something isn't racist, where did the belief that (s)he's entitled to say what Muslim women should or shouldn't be offend by, especially considering all the times (s)he's taken umbrage over something someone's said on this here forum, it seems when it comes to offense (s)he's the ultimate arbiter.
  4. terley


    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,722

    Mens rights encapsulate talking about how suicide disproportionately effects men, as does homelessness.
  5. FoxEye


    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 22,734

    Location: Cornwall

    Define fairness.

    Let's say you get your wish and you get a flat tax rate across the board.

    Couldn't you then say, "It's unfair that tax isn't capped. I don't use the NHS more than anyone else; I don't use roads more than anyone else, why should I pay so much more towards them? Tax would be fairer if it was capped at £80k, and above £80k I didn't pay any tax at all. That would be the most fair."

    Also what about personal allowances? "It's not fair that somebody earning less than 25k doesn't pay any tax at all*. They use public services more than I do, yet they don't contribute at all!"

    *Assuming that under a flat tax system we have to raise the tax rate for everyone, and thus also the personal allowance.
  6. dowie


    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,038

    I didn't rush to anything.... but my opinion on Boris Johnons' criticism isn't because it is Boris Johnson.

    I don't, I already answered it. Though I'm not sure that there was any basis for asking it in the first place.

    Yes they were - Tony was straight into deflecting to Boris in reply to the video posted.. I then reply to that deflection nd you jump in with this random question.

    Because the video is what started this conversation you jumped in on and if you'd bothered to take a look at it perhaps you'd not have asked the pointless question in the first place as the whole point of the video was highlighting exactly this sort of hypocrisy!

    Exactly... thus the irony. Thus me asking if you'd actually even watched it...
  7. PlacidCasual


    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,233

    Johnson was arguing against the Burka ban in France when he made his letter box and bank robber context. He made it clear he thought the clothing is bad for women, bad manners and against British values. He then in classic liberal style defended their right to wear it because it’s none of the states business.

    If Corbyn got up and described the Hassidic Jews as looking like clowns that offended all sense of style but said that it was none of the states business arguing against a ban of Hassidic Jewish dress taking place in another mature Western European democracy. Then yes I would defend him.

    The second example is a bit spurious though.

    However I also think that if someone refuses to serve someone with a covered face, for whatever reason that is an allowable choice of conscience.

    As to Halal and Kosher I don’t think either is crueler than normal slaughter but I don’t think it is racist if other people do. After all the animals are not being stunned it is a rational argument even if I don’t t agree.
  8. garnett


    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,833

    Probably worth flagging this up. As well as being responsible for what will be even more Brexit shambles, your Conservative vote will also be used to give a populist demagogue a very wide mandate in your name. When this rears its head, you won't be able to say you didn't know...

    Are there any other Conservative voters its worth tagging just so they can't shirk ownership.

    @dowie will always lie about voting LibDem but we can rest assured hell be voting for this ****show.

    Anyone else?
  9. garnett


    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,833

    That's a tolarance and a stretch I've not seen you afford any other demographic other than the one you appear to fall in!

    What rights are involved in suicide and homelessness then?
  10. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,689

    Location: Plymouth

    I'd probably be expecting it to settle somewhere in the region of a £10k payment and a 35-45% tax rate, which would give a break even point (where you move from net recipient to net payer) of between £22,500 and £29,000 roughly speaking.
  11. chroniclard


    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 14,836

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Bleat to kingdom come about antisemitism for years on end, argue the toss for days on end defending racism.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2019
  12. FortuitousFluke


    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,922

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    So they go further than any other party? But you criticise them above the others for not being perfect? Sounds logical.
  13. Tony Edwards


    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,097

    Sorry if Ive missed this part but.

    So would that then be no other benefits would be available. Say housing benefit for instance? So for instance you get £10k to live on and if you cant manage it hard luck or should they allow other addon benefits aswell? Housing benefit, incapacity and such?

    UBI is certainly an interesting idea. At £10k pa it is far more than the idea Labour were toying with. I just cant see the incentive for a lot of people wanting to bother to work if thats the case.
  14. StriderX


    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,416

    To earn more...
  15. Usher


    Joined: Dec 30, 2004

    Posts: 3,202

    They haven't gone further than any other party, it's just printed waffle and means absolutely nothing, like most of the stuff on their manifesto it will never happen.
  16. D.P.


    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,675

    There is no such thing as race. Race, as defined to day is a sociocultural category of which religion is a big part.
  17. do_ron_ron


    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,859

  18. RDM


    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,294

    Probably not. The flak he will get for not doing it is probably less than that the damage an interview will do. Neil hasn’t exactly been kind in his interviews and has made all the leaders look pretty terrible so far.
  19. Tony Edwards


    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,097

    Nothing to see here. All above board.

  20. mattyfez


    Joined: Apr 12, 2007

    Posts: 9,337

    Very good point from Neil, if Johnson is too weak or cowardly to do an interview with him, he'll be utterly destroyed in real negociations with the global heavyweights of China, the USA, Russia and the EU.

    Good trade deals my backside...
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