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Poll: General Election 2019 voting intention - Nov 15th - 30th

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Rilot, Nov 15, 2019.

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Who will you vote for?

  1. Brexit

    15 vote(s)
    2.9%
  2. Conservative

    148 vote(s)
    28.8%
  3. DUP

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  4. Green

    3 vote(s)
    0.6%
  5. Labour

    137 vote(s)
    26.7%
  6. Liberal Democrats

    161 vote(s)
    31.3%
  7. Plaid Cymru

    3 vote(s)
    0.6%
  8. Sinn Fein

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  9. SNP

    20 vote(s)
    3.9%
  10. TIG

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  11. UKIP

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  12. Other party

    5 vote(s)
    1.0%
  13. Independant

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  14. Spoil ballot

    14 vote(s)
    2.7%
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  1. NickK

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2003

    Posts: 18,539

    It is amazing that one poll asks (Yougov) how well the government has handled the eu/brexit - the trust is about 75% of people think it’s been handled badly.

    So they think it's handled badly ergo they don’t have confidence in the negotiation and leadership. Yet people are happy to vote to adopt the results of the leadership and bad negotiation ability by electing the conservatives/labour etc.

    the question open to misinterpretation but still - that’s effing nuts!
     
  2. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,813

    Politicking at it's best, firstly there can never be "no money left" if you're a sovereign currency issuing nation as you literally have a never ending supply (ignoring the rather drastic consequences of printing to much money) as proven by the BoE creating £500bn out of thin air for its QE program, secondly these notes are a treasury tradition, that particular note was echoing back to the note that the Conservative chancellor left for Callaghan saying "good luck old ****, sorry to leave it in a mess".
     
  3. danlightbulb

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 14, 2005

    Posts: 3,007

    My personal view is no, all conditions are not equal. If, for example, those 14% were all friday night drunks then i have no quarrel with them having to wait longer. If its old people who have fallen at home, then I would see that differently.

    Your view may differ.
     
  4. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,803

    Indeed, are people really questioning why triage exist? Not everyone who goes to A&E should even necessarily be there. You’ve got the drunks, the general mental health cases who just turn up regularly and people abusing the service and using it in place of their GP.

    If someone goes into A&E unnecessarily to get a prescription then I don’t care if they wait 12 hours tbh...
     
  5. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,813

    And my heart agrees with you, however my head does not. The drunks you allude to would/should wait longer, heck I'd like to kick them out and bar them from local establishments or send them to compulsory AA meeting or something, however my head tells me we can't do that, not only is it a slippery slope but it also means we're making judgments on things we're not only not qualified to make but also simply can't make in advance as it has to be done on a case by case basis.

    It's to late to stop, delay, prevent, dissuade or whatever once people get to A&E, that has to be done before they get there as A&E is the last stop.
     
  6. danlightbulb

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 14, 2005

    Posts: 3,007

    @Murphy i agree with the principle of that yes. All i was really saying earlier, is that Id like to see the waiting times broken down by condition because that, to me, is an important factor before judging how significant this failing target is.
     
  7. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,470

    Location: Aberdeen

    The candidates for my constituency have now been listed. I vaguely know of the Lib Dem candidate, Ian Yuill, and I think I've met him.
     
  8. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,813

    And i guess what I'm saying is condition shouldn't matter because drunks, i can't get a doctors appointment, I'm having a mental health crisis and there's no care workers or support services, i stubbed my toe, etc, etc. Shouldn't even be needing, depending on, going to A&E in the first place. We shouldn't need to break down conditions as 'time wasters' should not be reaching A&E in the first place.
     
  9. danlightbulb

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 14, 2005

    Posts: 3,007

    And I agree, yet right now these failing targets are being used as a political football and I dont think the headline target is sufficient to make a fair judgement on performance, especially when we know the A&E service is facing the kinds of scenarios you list above.
     
  10. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,621

    It would be interesting if the pub, club, bar banning system was more robust, and anyone having to attend A&E through drink related problems should automatically be banned from all drinking establishments for X amount of time. A repeat ban would increase the next time.
     
  11. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,754

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Go Lib Dems, or go home!
     
  12. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 23,346

    Location: Cornwall

    Well from what I've heard a lot of the time the failure is to a large part in drawing up the contracts.

    Down here we tried to outsource our local govt IT services to BT. A couple years later, in an acrimonious divorce (where IT was brought back in-house), the whole thing ended up in court. The judge looking at the contract said it was (paraphrasing) "very wordy, but amounted to very little". The contract was massive, but turned out to be awful for determining anything concrete, including SLAs, etc. Critical stuff.
     
  13. Puzzled

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 9, 2003

    Posts: 6,648

    Not keen on this idea of state provided broadband by Labour, feels like they'd have too much access to what we do / say online and while I know companies already have that data it feels more sinister when a government is in control of it.

    Pump more money into infrastructure sure but state provided free broadband seems a step to far, which kinda sums up labour for me. They have some good ideas but they want to do all of it at once which will require a crazy amount of money and cause instability, if they just picked a couple of things to focus on for this election and took a more moderate stance then they'd gain more of the centrist vote that wants change but at a sensible pace.
     
  14. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,007

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    The A&E wait target states that 95% of patients should be admitted, transferred, or discharged within 4 hours. If somebody who shouldn't be in A&E shows up then they should be discharged or referred, mental health cases should be referred, people abusing the service should be discharged or referred, all of which should happen in 4 hours, something that Trusts were much better at managing a few years back.

    This isn't just a debate about A&E, the wait times are impacted by numerous factors, almost all of them have been impacted by Tory policy.

    • General A&E staffing - Impacted by Tory policies towards NHS
    • People escalating from more appropriate health settings e.g. GP surgery - Lack of GPs leading to people getting sick of having to wait for weeks for any appointment, lack of tertiary or community services to pick up these issues in the home
    • People presenting with mental health issues - Decimation of mental health and social care provision leading to an increase in crisis cases, and a lack of suitable places for them to seek help
    • Drunks - Arguably a lack of policing leading to escalation, but also a lack of social care and mental health support to support those with substance abuse issues to manage their conditions, leading to increased crisis admissions.
    Waiting times have increased due to mismanagement of the NHS and other areas by the Tory Government, you might believe that it's okay for certain cases to wait for 4 hours or more, but the targets don't, and we've seen a downward spiral of performance despite those pressures always existing in society, so the real question is; is it okay that things are getting worse?

    This is a fair point as long as the information is analysed by the person reading them in an appropriate way. I know a lot of people who would look at that info and say "Well it's because all them mental health cases are going to A&E, they shouldn't be going there!", that's an accurate assessment, but it's incomplete because it needs to be followed by the question "Why are people presenting at A&E with a mental health need?". The answer to that question is that the Tories have absolutely hammered mental health and social care funding over their last few terms, and that's why you'll see hospital execs arguing that a portion of the money that is being offered to the NHS and hospitals should also go to social care and mental health, because managing a need that you're not equipped to manage is incredibly costly and inefficient.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  15. NickK

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2003

    Posts: 18,539

    Indeed, the message is a time honoured running joke. However it is the way that it was said that specific time.. missing the joke POV and simply inferring it’s deliberately been messed up. The language used was not “jokey”.
     
  16. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 33,750

    Location: Welling, London

    I hate the Lib Dem’s and am already home, what do I do?
     
  17. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,813

    To you and I no it wasn't, however to politicians of a certain ilk it was, you only have to look at that recent video of Johnson to see how some politicians react to 'normal' peoples woes, our lives are basically a bit of a laugh to some of them.
     
  18. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,007

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Is it really worth holding a grudge against an entire party over a poorly worded joke from a decade ago perpetrated by an individual who hasn't been an MP for 2, soon to be 3, election cycles? It's like me saying I'll never vote Conservative because George Osborne once advocated chopping up Theresa May and storing her in his freezer.
     
  19. joey1211

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 28, 2003

    Posts: 3,106

    Location: Aberwristwatch

    :) You made this up, right?
     
  20. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,007

    Location: Cambridgeshire

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