German court rules circumcision is 'bodily harm'

[moogle]

To be completely honest, the indoctrination of children of any religious parents in to their religion leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I have no issue with people having religious beliefs, but bringing up a child with though beliefs taught as fact doesn't sit right with me.

Then they'll say that you're imposing your beliefs on their child, it's never-ending

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I dont have a foreskin and im not jewish, sure it was for medical reasons but it has had 0 effect on my life, bar perhaps being about 5ish with a ******* which looked like sonic the hedgehog (due to the stiches) and once a bare bell zipper incident at about 15.

Every girl I have been with has prefered it and as I have nothing to compare it to sexy time is good.

Doing something for religion however is *******.

 

[krooton]

Indoctrination rarely has any lasting impact on a child into adulthood...if it did then we would all still be deeply pious....

The problem is that what you are suggesting is effectively excluding a families children from what is to some Parents a fundamental part of their live's, both individually and as a family unit.

Judaism in particular is not simply a religion, it is an integral part of a Jews cultural and ethnic identity and to a lesser extent this is true of Christians also....to fully shield children from religious influence you would have to remove any and all reference to religion, including all the cultural references that inform and are integral to our cultural identity....such as Christmas, Easter, and so on...

I'm not saying they shouldn't be made aware of religion and the like, just that most religious parents teach their children that their beliefs are fact, rather than just belief. And religious parents aren't willing to make that distinction to their kids, as ultimately they want them to grow up believing the same thing.

My mother wishes I believe in God, but I questioned everything I was 'taught' in Sunday School, and got excluded from it as a result (lol). By 8 I just couldn't see any logical way that any of the religions I was aware of could be true, and have been agnostic ever since.

 

[Castiel]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be made aware of religion and the like, just that most religious parents teach their children that their beliefs are fact, rather than just belief. And religious parents aren't willing to make that distinction to their kids, as ultimately they want them to grow up believing the same thing.

There is nothing wrong with that......by definition religious parents believe in the truth of their religious beliefs...do you expect them to tell their children that their beliefs are hokum?

Of course they want them to grow up having the same values and morals as they do....what is wrong with that?

It seems you simply want to impose your secular ideology on children while criticising those that are doing the same but from their religious perspective.

All that matters is the welfare of the child, if those beliefs are harmful to the child then we should have a framework (and we do) to deal with that...that includes any belief or ideology and not only religion.

Anything more is simply unnecessary interference in a Parents right to raise their children as they wish.

My mother wishes I believe in God, but I questioned everything I was 'taught' in Sunday School, and got excluded from it as a result (lol). By 8 I just couldn't see any logical way that any of the religions I was aware of could be true, and have been agnostic ever since.

Which simply goes to illustrate just how ineffective a religious upbringing is at indoctrination of children into adulthood in the vast majority of cases.....

 

[aardvark]

Indoctrination rarely has any lasting impact on a child into adulthood...

really?
you are saying what a person is taught at a young age has no effect on its later life?
really???

 

[AGD]

Which simply goes to illustrate just how ineffective a religious upbringing is at indoctrination of children into adulthood in the vast majority of cases.....

I'm not sure you can use anecdotal evidence to back that statement up. I've been trying to find reliable data on this, but I'd be very surprised if the religion you were brought up into, did not have a statistically significant effect on your chosen religion later in life.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Religion sucks, the sooner we can rid ourselves of this cancer the sooner we can start getting along with each other!

 

[Castiel]

really?
you are saying what a person is taught at a young age has no effect on its later life?
really???

I am saying that as children get older they are less likely to be indoctrinated into a specific position....especially religion as in today's society particularly they are exposed to so many opposing views and ideologies that they, as a rule, choose their own position when they are in a position to do so.

How many children agree with their parents once into their teenage years?...most would believe the conrary to their parents just to spite them.....

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Haha that last statement is untrue Castiel. We disagree because parents are often wrong.

 

[Castiel]

I'm not sure you can use anecdotal evidence to back that statement up. I've been trying to find reliable data on this, but I'd be very surprised if the religion you were brought up into, did not have a statistically significant effect on your chosen religion later in life.

The culture and geographical position of where you are born has more effect than what your parents may believe......particularly in countries where there is freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

 

[Castiel]

Haha that last statement is untrue Castiel. We disagree because parents are often wrong.

And as you get older you will find that in many cases they were probably right after all.......

 

[dirtychinchilla]

This may or may not be true

 

[aardvark]

I am saying that as children get older they are less likely to be indoctrinated into a specific position....especially religion as in today's society particularly they are exposed to so many opposing views and ideologies that they, as a rule, choose their own position when they are in a position to do so.

How many children agree with their parents once into their teenage years?...most would believe the conrary to their parents just to spite them.....

its less likely in highly educated groups but it clearly happens all the time, just look around the world.
it particularly happens more in poor uneducated countries but nevertheless happens in this country all the time.

 

[bitslice]

Religion sucks, the sooner we can rid ourselves of this cancer the sooner we can start getting along with each other!

So in a thread about Judaism, you dump some random hate video about evangelical Christians, that's really helpful

I hope you are willing to stump up a few billion in charitable donations once you have rid the world of religion.

 

[mmj_uk]

You'll never pursuade someone who has been circumcised that it was wrong, they will defend it to death as a coping mechanism - what other choice do they have? to admit they have been unnecessarily mutilated? it would take a very strong minded person to do that and live with the knowledge. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Anyway, with this news I would hope circumcision rates take a big drop. 18yr olds who have grown up with an intact penis would be very unlikely to get a circumcision done as an adult because having a foreskin is nowhere near the evil that circumcised folks have been told and make it out to be.

 

[Castiel]

its less likely in highly educated groups but it clearly happens all the time, just look around the world.
it particularly happens more in poor uneducated countries but nevertheless happens in this country all the time.

It is less likely in all ability groups in countries that have freedom of religion and freedom of expression...as the children of all abilities and creeds are exposed to opposing viewpoints more easily and isolation from those views (required for indoctrination) is harder to implement.

You only have to look at your average secondary faith school to see just how few children give two hoots about religion.


Besides you do not replace one form of indoctrination with another.....you simply ensure that freedom of religion and expression is accessible and protected to everyone.

 

[AGD]

The culture and geographical position of where you are born has more effect than what your parents may believe......particularly in countries where there is freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

Source?

 

[Castiel]

Source?

Me.

Or you can research the position yourself, a simple search of all the evidence presented in the various threads on this topic already would suffice.

The simple point of looking at religious adherence by country and dominant religion would illustrate that the country in which you are born will significantly inform which religion (or none) that you will typically adhere to.....

And if you look at countries that have protected freedoms of religion an expression, You will see a more diverse spread of beliefs and increaed secularity in many of the examples.

 

[AGD]

Me.

:/

Or you can research the position yourself, a simple search of all the evidence presented in the various threads on this topic already would suffice.

As mentioned in my previous post, I have been searching, but have so far been unable to find any reliable data on the subject. If you know any, I would be very interested.

 

[Twirlywoos]

So in a thread about Judaism, you dump some random hate video about evangelical Christians, that's really helpful

I hope you are willing to stump up a few billion in charitable donations once you have rid the world of religion.

Well said, do you know now why I say that people are xenophobic? These people hold the mentality that in order to get along with other cultures, religions, tribes, nationalities etc etc that you need to assimilate their beliefs rather than have an understanding why people practise various rituals.

I'm not surprised that Nazi Germany are spewing their hatred towards the Jews by passing stupid laws.