German court rules circumcision is 'bodily harm'

Tefal · 25 Jul 2012 at 21:51

Woden said:
It's removal of the clitoris.

if they're lucky it's just that

Some of them go hacking away for damn near everything

toshj · 25 Jul 2012 at 21:51

estebanrey said:
Well I suppose I am.

Circumcised as an adult for medical reasons and I don't really agree with chopping bits of babies without their consent (medical reasons excluded of course) and as an Atheist as well I'm not really supportive of doing stuff because your magic book commands you to either.

However, on a purely selfish level I'm glad it is so widespread as it is otherwise I could be seen as 'abnormal' by girls if they weren't as used to it as they are because of the religious practice.

Ok, I should have phrased that better. Are there any who have been circumcised at birth who are against it?

moogle · 25 Jul 2012 at 21:53

toshj said:
Ok, I should have phrased that better. Are there any who have been circumcised at birth who are against it?

Yes, for the reasons that a child should have the choice in the matter and not the parent.

T345 · 25 Jul 2012 at 21:54

Castiel said:
Come on guys, T345 is only 12. Give the kid a bit of slack.

Thanks

And thanks again for the awesome sig

toshj · 25 Jul 2012 at 21:56

moogle said:
Yes, for the reasons that a child should have the choice in the matter and not the parent.

Ok, interesting. Do your parents know that you're angry with them for it?

moogle · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:03

toshj said:
Ok, interesting. Do your parents know that you're angry with them for it?

Well I'm not angry in my case I quite like it (not because it's permanent and I have to make it seem like a good thing to make it seem okay to myself).

They don't know I'm against this specifically but in general religion itself, and that's only due to the topic not coming up for discussion when I'm around.

estebanrey · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:07

moogle said:
Well I'm not angry in my case I quite like it

This is the funny thing here. I've never met someone who has been circumcised and hated it or wished they had a foreskin, yet the people who are 'uncut' seem to view it as a mutilation that violates one's human rights.

To be fair, I'm more troubled by people who buy cats and have their claws or tails removed.

moogle · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:18

estebanrey said:
This is the funny thing here. I've never met someone who has been circumcised and hated it or wished they had a foreskin, yet the people who are 'uncut' seem to view it as a mutilation that violates one's human rights.

Well I see it as this, lets say you could have an operation or injection or something medical to turn you gay or the inverse of your sexuality (excluding Bi's here

) and it will make you feel just the same like you do towards the opposite sex as you do now.

Most people wouldn't want to do it even though it wouldn't affect them at all (all hypothetical obviously), and I think that's the same reason why someone wouldn't hate that they've been circumcised.

They're already that way and if it hasn't caused them any harm or to be viewed differently they don't mind.

I'm sure if someone was circumcised and it caused them problems they would hate it and who knows there may be some people like that, but I think most don't mind because they're still seen as normal, not trying to justify it because it's permanent.

zenf · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:18

estebanrey said:
This is the funny thing here. I've never met someone who has been circumcised and hated it or wished they had a foreskin, yet the people who are 'uncut' seem to view it as a mutilation that violates one's human rights.

To be fair, I'm more troubled by people who buy cats and have their claws or tails removed.

Edit to remove a bad example... If you never had it, why would you miss it?

Castiel · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:24

T345 said:
Thanks
And thanks again for the awesome sig

You are welcome.

estebanrey · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:25

zenf1 said:
Well true but I would imagine that if you were born blind, you wouldn't miss having sight.

I was including people who have been circumcised as adults, like myself, in that previous post.

Edit: Removed reply to bad example

Castiel · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:27

estebanrey said:
I was including people who have been circumcised as adults, like myself, in that previous post.

Don't like your analogy though, I'm sure if you asked someone who was born blind if they'd like to be able to see they would 'yes', I don't think you'd get the same reaction from asking circumcised people if they'd like a foreskin.

I would think it was more akin to not having your appendix or something similar.....I'm not sure I would miss it all that much........not that I'm going to chop it off to find out mind!!

Moothead2 · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:31

estebanrey said:
I was including people who have been circumcised as adults, like myself, in that previous post.

Edit: Removed reply to bad example

To be fair, from your posts about your reasons behind it I think anybody in your situation would be happier without it

.

estebanrey · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:37

Moothead2 said:
To be fair, from your posts about your reasons behind it I think anybody in your situation would be happier without it .

Well quite,

But I do like other things about it as well too. I mentioned this before as well but when I had one sometime I'd go to the toilet and my wee would come out as a funny angle as it passed through the bunched up forskin, now my aim's as straight as a die.

I also think it looks better and it saves me one less cleaning task in the shower

Moothead2 · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:46

estebanrey said:
Well quite,

But I do like other things about it as well too. I mentioned this before as well but when I had one sometime I'd go to the toilet and my wee would come out as a funny angle as it passed through the bunched up forskin, now my aim's as straight as a die.

I also think it looks better and it saves me one less cleaning task in the shower

I don't like peeing with my foreskin pulled back, it wrecks my aim

. I also don't look in the mirror when I'm nake and think "Dayum does my penis look good today" so I doubt I'd do the same without a foreskin and the last point is just laziness

.

zenf · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:57

estebanrey said:
I was including people who have been circumcised as adults, like myself, in that previous post.

Edit: Removed reply to bad example

I was a bit too slow with the edit

Fair enough, I guess I'd get used to it but I wouldn't have it done unless I needed to tbh, I try to keep sharp things away from my penis as a general rule

Craterloads · 25 Jul 2012 at 22:58

RDM said:
Because your main reason for believing infant circumcision to be a good thing is because of your personal faith? How is it not relevant?

Well the main topic at hand here is what actual benifits does it provide and what about about the negatives. Its futile discusing religious reasons with non religious/athiests as that is not logical for them. Hence their line of questioning which goes like above, which is what i am CLEARLY responding too. I have stated numerous times to others and you my own personal opinions on circumcision are and you are all ready aware of my beliefs. Yet you keep badgering on about and on pointing out im muslim and telling me to be "honest" effectively saying im being dishonest when i have all ready explained to you why i am pursuing the non religious line.

Which part of the comment is incorrect?

Theres nothing incorrect with your comment, what im questioing is why you keep bringing it up at every opportunity? We are discusing medical benifits/cons, i am providing medical benifits (however miniscule you feel they are) but you keep on making snide comments at my personal faith at every oppertunity.

estebanrey · 25 Jul 2012 at 23:07

Moothead2 said:
I also don't look in the mirror when I'm nake and think "Dayum does my penis look good today"

You Don't? :confused:

But seriously, I was thinking about the ladies on that point

estebanrey · 25 Jul 2012 at 23:12

zenf1 said:
I was a bit too slow with the edit

Fair enough, I guess I'd get used to it but I wouldn't have it done unless I needed to tbh, I try to keep sharp things away from my penis as a general rule

Well yeah I'll admit the hours before the OP weren't my most relaxing.

You also have to spend a few days in bed afterward with your legs wide open recovering and I won't mention the tension you feel when you find a few stitches haven't dissolved completely and you have to get the scissors out to rectify it (my hands have never been so steady

)

The worst thing though is after a a few days, you can get up and walk about comfortably but you still have the bandage on for another week or so which is fine until you go out clubbing and meet the fittest girl you've ever met before or since and have to make excuses for an early night (which happened to me, but then that's just my luck

)

But once all that's done it's great.

Morbius · 25 Jul 2012 at 23:12

Craterloads said:
Its futile discusing religious reasons with non religious/athiests as that is not logical for them.

Religion is illogical full stop. Religion requires faith, which by definition is accepting something without evidence, which is illogical. Faith is just a synonym of gullibility.