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Gf being pushed/managed out of her job - looking to be signed off.. Any advice to help?

Discussion in 'Careers, Employment and Professional Development' started by 413x, 30 Jul 2021.

  1. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg

    This a bit like a carbon copy of the other thread.

    Is a bit long so TLDR :

    -GF is in a toxic work environment - I've never seen he this stressed and angry.
    -she can't think logically and is in a destructive negative emotional spiral
    -She's going to be put on performance review soon I can tell
    -it's probably a two way boss/her issue
    -She's thinking of getting signed off for stress (she is very stressed)
    -She's had physical extended absence before for unrelated back issues
    -She's actively looking for other jobs. This isn't going well

    will getting signed off sick backfire? Or, if its the only option, is it a good idea? ..Legitimately, I'd sign her off. She's a state.

    I don't believe she has enough logic or can detach her emotions to come out of this positively at her work place



    Longer read :

    I believe she is about to be put on performance review. Her manager has said she's not meeting expectations. And it's not getting better.

    Unfortunately as it's her, not me, I only get 2nd hand biased info. But I do hear (work from home) the one to ones she has

    Timeline:
    Everything was 'ok' not great but no issues. Let's say average.
    New manager comes in Few months back.
    Gf isn't performing.

    Now from what I gather its become a boss/employee toxic relationship. And she will end up being pushed out or leaving. But she's struggling to find jobs. This is stressing her out more.
    It's at the point she's Booked a doc appointment for stress - to be fair, her mental health is through the floor.


    Job themes include:
    -gf acknowledges she's a bit slow
    -her boss has accused her of lying which she has evidence she didn't do
    -deadline KPIs have poor deadlines (deadline December, red rating now)
    -signed off work isn't signed off - it gets reworked by the boss
    -many deadlines require other people's input.. Other people don't want to do it, gf gets blame, needs to be more 'assertive'
    -boss moves goal posts, a piece of work will be OK, then not. Poor sign off.
    -gf has becomes disorganised, she forgets things and boss calls these up as she's no longer invested

    Really, the core issue is her and her boss don't talk. She's basically scared to talk.



    I've suggested a few things like proactively bringing up deadlines.
    "you've said I have this December deadline, but it's red now, can we discuss and work through chunking this up so we are on the same page"
    "you've identified that this project is a 'red' because I'm responsible. I'm struggling to get other people to dedicate the time, can you help me formulate a strategy to overcome this"

    You know, the cliche be proactive, admit you have some areas of improvement but you also want to work on them.

    But I fear she can't do it. She's just do socially awkward, angry at her boss and basically emotionally unstable to do what's needed.

    Whenever we talk it's clear she always brings up 'she's horrible', 'why can't she be nice', 'I can't even bring myself to talk to her'. Emotive negative stuff. And when I suggest 'survival tactics' she almost immediately switches back to emotive stuff.

    Absolutely any advice you guys can give? It's completely destructive to her, our relationship and her enjoyment of life.


    Added the below


    If I'm completely honest I don't think she's cut out for the work. She takes too long to do stuff. And has probably slipped behind. Her manager hasn't addressed this properly and it's become a bigger ballooning problem.
    It's an extroverted, assertive, organised job and somehow she's Fallen into it because 'she likes writing' but has ended up in marketing
     
    Last edited: 30 Jul 2021
  2. HangTime

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 25 Oct 2002

    Posts: 29,400

    Location: Hampshire

    Not going to comment on getting signed off but a few points around the job themes:
    This is quite common in some roles. One way of handling this, other than being assertive, is to put more formality around the dependencies. In a project environment this is easier, as you can leverage things like risk logs to protect yourself a bit.
    If it's more a BAU construct, consider publishing miniplans with named responsibilities and deadline dates, asking for positive confirmation that the individuals are committed to the plan. If they don't provide this or renege on their commitment, this can then be escalated. This will all help build up collateral for the performance management reviews, providing physical evidence of her efforts to drive action through forward planning rather than just a conversation "Yeah I asked Jenny in accounts to send me the extracts, she said it would take too long and was too busy. So I've missed my deadline"

    Similarly if there is moving goal posts, record keeping can help, although might be difficult if she's disorganised (conversely it might help reduce the disorganisation).

    More broadly it sounds like an issue in segregating emotions and practicalities, which could remain a problem even if she changes jobs. There's a chance in every job that you will have to work with someone you don't like / gel with, so you need to have a mechanism to deal with that. You can do training on how to approach this sort of thing, although obviously you need to go in with a receptive attitude. This is a random link I found but it touches on some training I had years ago around asking for every conflict "COULD I let this go?": https://www.meditationlifeskills.com/the-art-of-letting-go/ I'd brush over the mindfulness stuff as not really about that, more about acceptance of issues.

    edit: to be clear, she might not be in the right state of mind to consider stuff like that now, but maybe for the future.
     
    Last edited: 30 Jul 2021
  3. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg


    Yeah I think I agree on basically everything.

    There are ways around these things. But if emotions are in control and you cant turn them off, has the ship sailed? Especially hate and rage.

    I've kind of suggested doing some of this.
    Have formal sign off.
    Have a formal third party approach:
    Have attempts.. A set number.. A process.
    Email, second email, phone call, escalate.
    Keep evidence.

    I just don't think she has the mental state to manage it.

    Even without the emotive stuff I think she just hates 'lots of little tasks' and can't organise herself out of it.

    I think she spends too long on everything rather than just getting something decent out the door she spends ages doing it. For her manager to say 'it's wrong'

    It is possible her manager really just does want her out. After all she inherited this.



    Concern is its no longer just work that's suffering. (hence thread)
    Each new job interview is more pressure as work gets worse. Which makes her health worse.. Rinse and repeat. I'm out of suggestions.

    I have mental health issues but largely stay on top. But I can see them emerging in her. "ill never get a newjob"
    I always use logic to take emotion away when I need to (like when I got put on review). But she just can't. I feel helpless really.

    Thanks for replying. I'll offer these up. See if I get a brick wall
     
  4. Rids

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Sep 2008

    Posts: 6,703

    She needs to either find a way to work with boss and come to a solution that satisfies all parties or one of them needs to go, from what you've said above it seems that clear cut to me.

    I don't know how old your other half is, it does seem that there is some immaturity here. In any job there are going to people that you don't like and/or don't respect and you have to find a way around your personal feelings to get the job done. I also think learning to accept criticism that you may think is unfair is something that she needs to work on when she is ready. A big part of being in a more senior role is sometimes having to carry the can for things that were outside of your control or not your fault.

    In the current situation, can having some time off sick do any serious harm? The situation feels like its completely irreparable without some distance and time to think, and some time out of the office is the best way to accomplish this. Whether she does that by being signed off or by using holiday is up for discussion, but if the job is causing her severe emotional stress she needs to remove herself from the situation in the short term.
     
  5. HangTime

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 25 Oct 2002

    Posts: 29,400

    Location: Hampshire

    When I was less experienced, I had similar views in the sense that if I was given something to do that would take say days to complete (not hours or many weeks), I just wanted to get on with it rather than break it down into small tasks. I was then challenged by my manager and mentor on progress and he wanted to see a plan for my approach. At the time, I felt it was a bit pointless, just creating more work to come up with a plan rather than "getting on with it". But what I later came to realise when I moved into management myself was that sometimes seeing a plan is the way a manager can be confident in delegation, that they know you have a sound approach to deliver on what they are accountable for. It also helps avoid the scenario where you get told it is "wrong" at the end because in theory they've been walked through your plan, and should be bought into it (can also help highlight things you may have overlooked).
     
  6. randomshenans

    Capodecina

    Joined: 11 Sep 2009

    Posts: 12,774

    Location: France, Alsace

    So my wife used to work for the NHS for years, but not in an office environment. So when she first started at Novartis she really struggled with this. It's less of an immaturity thing for me and more of an inexperience thing. It took a lot of me talking through things with her to get her to realise feedback isn't personal insults. Being able to take feedback is an important lesson in working life. Both taking and receiving in a constructive way!
     
  7. mid_gen

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Dec 2004

    Posts: 11,843

    She should speak to her HR rep or skip-level manager before the poop hits the fan. Explain the situation.

    The usual way to resolve these toxic/deteriorating interpersonal workplace relationships is with a third party arbitration.
     
  8. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Apr 2014

    Posts: 24,014

    Location: Huem

    I thought it all sounded a bit too much until you mentioned marketing right at the end. It's all too common in that field with huge egos and everyone needing to act an extrovert.

    Even with an alright boss, the job doesn't sound like something worth fighting for long term. Put the effort into finding a job elsewhere, something will crop up eventually.
     
    Last edited: 2 Aug 2021
  9. Bouton Aide

    Caporegime

    Joined: 9 Aug 2008

    Posts: 29,304

    Tell her to look for another job, leave the toxic environment as soon as possible. If she's been pushed out/managed out work places are crafty when it comes to management.

    If they don't do it soon they will do it eventually.
     
  10. Steampunk

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 1 Jun 2013

    Posts: 8,904

    I've been in this exact situation as you are with my partner. The only long term solution is for her to change jobs. If she's stressed, get her signed off, and it will give her a little time to recover and see the bigger picture that she has to leave the job for her own health.
     
  11. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg

    Thanks all.

    And yeah I basically agree with you all. This is a get before you are pushed out thing.

    I do fear her not getting a job in time (in time for fallout) but she has to try.
    So she'll probably put pressure on herself to get new jobs. Longer it takes worse it'll get I guess



    I think she is going to try and get signed off. She's in a bit of a state I have to say.

    'worthless' and 'why are you with me' keeps coming out. Its all she can think about.
     
  12. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg

    Yeah, again, it's hard to know if her boss is being unfair or how much. But main reason i think she is and is playing games is that her work is always 'wrong' but you can't really argue with it, but it's just writing and opinion. It's like she's forcing doubt and anxiety in. Gf also has no peers at work so it's just her and boss.

    I think the accusations of lying really hurt. There are also things like going back on signed off work. It was right, now it's not, nothing has changed. Which is fine, if its a managed process. But gf seems to get the blame.



    So yeah. Working on getting out, but seems very difficult.
    Doesn't help that 2 interviews said she was second choice. So close. But not enough. Just rubs it in really.
    I can see the 'defeat' emotions growing, this is by far my biggest concern
     
  13. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Apr 2014

    Posts: 24,014

    Location: Huem

    It's a leadership style that rarely ever works, particularly in creative roles. Give people autonomy and let them make and learn from their own mistakes. Constantly telling someone they're doing something wrong and doing their work for them means you aren't leading.
     
  14. Lopéz

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 28,205

    Location: LE9/OTK

    I could do with someone backing me up over this in my organisation.
    Trying to explain to tenured staff that new people can, and will make lots of mistakes and will learn from them, and that you can't just rip them off a project the second something goes south and replace them with me is not a message that lands well.
     
  15. Rids

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Sep 2008

    Posts: 6,703

    Aaaaaah, I know that feeling so well.
     
  16. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg

    Yeah I just made a mistake today. But my boss is supportive. It was a silly mistake I know it was. I don't need to be belittled or patronised over it.

    That would just make me apprehensive of trying anything outside my comfort zone. Thus crippling potential.

    A good/bad boss makes so much difference
     
  17. TrojanWhore

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 13 Sep 2010

    Posts: 1,248

    100% agree (OP I know you said she's looking but it's not going well... And can relate to that too)

    HR (in many places at least) are IMO there to protect the company from the employee, not the reverse.

    Had a similar experience several years ago and it really messed me up for a long time (suicidal, SSRIs etc.), two jobs later I found a company that really appreciated my strengths and worked with me on my shortcomings to get the best from me.
    I'd still be there but due to the pandemic they lost the majority of their business and my remaining duties were outsourced or picked up by various managers.

    @413x I think right now though, she'll need your emotional rather than analytical support. It will get better, but she needs to get out before it makes her worse.
    Better to explain why you left than why you were fired....

    Best of luck to you both (I'm over tired and rambling on a bit so I'll leave it there)
     
  18. Bouton Aide

    Caporegime

    Joined: 9 Aug 2008

    Posts: 29,304

    I was looking for a job for months and months before I even found something, lived off nothing for 3 months. UC wouldn't give me anything for 2 months because they said I earned too much. When they where first rolling it out so had nothing. Until UC started rolling out mainstream.

    To be honest OP I would evaluate to see if you can manage on one wage, tell her just to leave on good accord and use the time to give her a break if you can keep her up and stable that's the main priority.

    Might be time to evaluate outgoings.
     
  19. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Jan 2007

    Posts: 13,402

    Location: PA, USA

    She may be feeling worthless right now, but she needs to find another job ASAP.

    A toxic work environment is crippling. Been there, done that and got the hell out. Massively happier now and started believing in myself again. I'm actually thankful for the jerk because he helped me get the 25% pay rise in the job move, because he pushed me enough to actually bother taking one of the recruiter calls I normally ignore. (This person on my team was so toxic, that they didn't even come to my leaving meal, unlike the other 15 people).

    If a company isn't bothering to deal with a toxic situation, then they aren't worth your GF's time. She needs to get out. Don't burn bridges.

    Again.... don't let her burn bridges, get her to put on a smiley face and start interviewing ASAP.
     
  20. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 23,188

    Location: Llaneirwg

    So she has been offered a job. But she is concerned about absence.

    She's doing references now. And was considering not putting most recent (2 years).

    I think she has to. If she doesn't will look like deliberate hiding of something.

    Her absence falls into two distinct categories

    Stress (she's had 7 days off)
    Ongoing back/hip 'issues'.
    This was significant. And months (4?)

    This is not cured. It has taken a lot from her.


    She's obviously concerned this may remove the offer.

    I didn't want to suggest the wrong thing and be blamed for her losing the job. But I strongly suspect she should list her most recent despite the sickness.