Giving up on Ryzen due to momentary freezing when under 100% load, advice needed?

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:03

Hi there, I've had my Ryzen 1800X and MSI X370 Carbon Pro now for a few months and for the most part its been working great, unfortunately since I got it I've had this really strange issue that so far, no one has gotten to the bottom of (I've already tried asking on BuildaPC subreddit and several tech support sites) where when compiling or rendering, or doing anything that hammers the CPU 100%, it will freeze for anywhere between one and ten seconds, when the system freezes the music stops, mouse stops, keyboard doesn't respond (caps/num lock don't change when pressed). Pretty much your standard hard system hang, however it will then unfreeze and resume as nothing happened.

The work that should have happened during the freeze does get done and the freezing doesn't affect Cinebench scores or extend the amount of time it takes to complete a Cinebench run.

I've replaced the GPU but it has not solved the problem and sending back either the motherboard or CPU (which I believe it could be) will leave me without a computer, which I cannot afford at the moment as I use it for work.

I'm hoping someone can throw me a bone and help me identify the issue before I give up and start saving for whatever the Intel equivalent is of what I have now.

edit: I think I may be seeing some other sort of fault as well, not sure if it's the modified version of Unreal Engine we use for work just doesn't work well on Ryzen, but no one else on the team seems to be running into the issue and I've tried wiping the system and reinstalling using reccomended configurations. I'm getting a lot of internal errors when compiling in Visual Studio, I've shot an email to Microsoft about it and they've said it's likely to be a software or hardware fault on my end, the errors I see a lot of are like this

Code:

4>C:\UnrealEngineBuilds\UnrealEngine-dev-geometry\Engine\Source\Runtime\Core\Public\Templates/Tuple.h(436): fatal error C1001: An internal error has occurred in the compiler.

darknite · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:18

Do you have the latest bios applied to the board?

Also are you able to see the hard drive load? You are using a m2 ssd. Make sure the latest samsung driver is installed for it.

While this could be the cpu, or at least the software you are using on that cpu it could be a couple of other issues. Bios, or drivers.

gavinh87 · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:19

Does it do this when everything is at stock?

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:22

darknite said:
Do you have the latest bios applied to the board?

Also are you able to see the hard drive load? Are you using a M2 ssd by any chance?

While this could be the cpu, or at least the software you are using on that cpu it could be a couple of other issues. Bios, or drivers.

I've tried several different bios versions as well as default configurations, overclocked, underclocked, tried different ram timings and tried various drivers as well. Nothing I tried made the issue worse or better. M.2 usage (and running a punishing test on my poor M.2 Samsung 960 Pro 1TB didn't yeild any sort of freezing, it only happens when the cpu gets hammered 100%, it NEVER happens in games but it does happen when working in Unreal Engine (and unreal does something where it uses all threads/cores at 100%).

Heck I've even tried running the system outside the case on cardboard with just the motherboard, 1 stick of ram and Windows 10 installed onto an old WD Black 1TB (with no M.2 drives installed) as a last resort, issue was still present.

gavinh87 · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:26

Could this be the segfault issue some early ryzen CPU's had?
If you have changed everything then it points to CPU or motherboard.

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:28

gavinh87 said:
Could this be the segfault issue some early ryzen CPU's had?
If you have changed everything then it points to CPU or motherboard.

You're not the first person to mention this, I did get the cpu fairly early and before the 1700 came out. How would I go about fixing this? what should I do?

Also when following the instructions here: https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win I don't get freezing or errors in the console on Windows but it does crash after a while

Is it supposed to do that? I was told to try the Linux version but Linux (Ubuntu, Debian & Mint) doesn't run well at all on this sytem it just causes freezings up and generally ***** a brick, my guess is it'll be a few years before we see Linux working on Ryzen)

darknite · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:28

Hmm do you have access to another Ryzen system to test the unreal engine and Visual Studio on?

But from the sounds of it, yes it is incompatible somehow.

1 other test, could you try turning off the virtual threads. Just use the main 8 cores?

Prozn · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:29

Not sure how MSI's support is, but you could try asking them for an RMA where they send you the replacement before you send the original board back. Same for the CPU.

gavinh87 · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:32

Chaoss said:
You're not the first person to mention this, I did get the cpu fairly early and before the 1700 came out. How would I go about fixing this? what should I do?

You'll need to put an RMA request in with AMD. Be prepared to jump through hoops, they ask for pictures of your case layout, bios settings, name of first pet etc etc....
This of course leaves you with no CPU until they ship you a new one.

gavinh87 · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:44

Chaoss said:
You're not the first person to mention this, I did get the cpu fairly early and before the 1700 came out. How would I go about fixing this? what should I do?

Also when following the instructions here: https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win I don't get freezing or errors in the console on Windows but it does crash after a while

Is it supposed to do that? I was told to try the Linux version but Linux (Ubuntu, Debian & Mint) doesn't run well at all on this sytem it just causes freezings up and generally ***** a brick, my guess is it'll be a few years before we see Linux working on Ryzen)

Crashing points to your CPU having the fault, RMA time.

Rainmaker · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:46

Chaoss said:
I was told to try the Linux version but Linux (Ubuntu, Debian & Mint) doesn't run well at all on this sytem it just causes freezings up and generally ***** a brick, my guess is it'll be a few years before we see Linux working on Ryzen)

Linux works fine with Ryzen and has done since release (unless you try to boot older pre-Ryzen distros). It does sound like you have a dud CPU.

Journey · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:47

RMA your processor through the retailer you bought it through, they are first port of call.

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:49

I got it through Overclockers, if I send it back to them I won't have a working computer, I just asked my boss if I can take 2 weeks off he just laughed lol we're on tight deadlines. I also don't really have €400 or whatever it is now spare to buy another one and send it in.

gavinh87 · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:52

Chaoss said:
I got it through Overclockers, if I send it back to them I won't have a working computer, I just asked my boss if I can take 2 weeks off he just laughed lol we're on tight deadlines. I also don't really have €400 or whatever it is now spare to buy another one and send it in.

I don't see what other choice you have tbh.

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 08:54

gavinh87 said:
I don't see what other choice you have tbh.

Live with it until I can afford to replace it I guess or ask Overclockers if there is a way I can do a swap instead of being stuck without a working computer. I mean it does "work" its just really inconvenient to deal with, especially now that I can't compile stuff while on skype calls any more (when the system freezes Skype calls drop out). and I have to get someone else on the team to compile the engine for me and send the binaries back to me (which is actually against Epic's TOS but it's my only option at the moment lest I have no job)

Prozn · 28 Sep 2017 at 09:11

Chaoss said:
I just asked my boss if I can take 2 weeks off he just laughed lol we're on tight deadlines

Your boss has to be understanding of the situation - your computer is broken - he needs to work with you to come up with a solution. Can you borrow a computer from work for example?

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 09:26

Prozn said:
Your boss has to be understanding of the situation - your computer is broken - he needs to work with you to come up with a solution. Can you borrow a computer from work for example?

Sadly not, shipping from Canada is expensive af. I contacted Overclockers and they've said I could be waiting 28 days... yeh no I'll contact AMD, let them know I'm not happy and see if there's anything they can do, otherwise I'll just have to live with it.

AndreiD · 28 Sep 2017 at 09:39

You can try AMD RMA, but from what others experienced, it takes about a month or so from the first ticket to actually getting a replacement.
I tried to RMA my 1700 since it has the SEGV issue too, but the amount of hoops they asked me to jump through was just annoying:

I gave up since the issue doesn't really appear in my use case, I just tried the kill ryzen script out of curiosity, but be prepared to jump through some hoops if you ever RMA it.
I'm also getting some intermittent freezing (usually 1-2 seconds for me) when getting 100% usage on all threads with compiling or rendering workloads, it doesn't seem to be uncommon from what I gathered, it might be a Ryzen quirk, but I'm not sure if this is limited to the first batches (which apparently all have the SEGV issue).

You can try disabling the MicroOP cache in the BIOS if you have the option for it, or disabling SMT and see if that has any effect. Both come with a performance impact, but supposedly it worked for some people based on what I read on the phoronix forums.

Chaoss · 28 Sep 2017 at 09:44

AndreiD said:
You can try AMD RMA, but from what others experienced, it takes about a month or so from the first ticket to actually getting a replacement.
I tried to RMA my 1700 since it has the SEGV issue too, but the amount of hoops they asked me to jump through was just annoying:

I gave up since the issue doesn't really appear in my use case, I just tried the kill ryzen script out of curiosity, but be prepared to jump through some hoops if you ever RMA it.
I'm also getting some intermittent freezing (usually 1-2 seconds for me) when getting 100% usage on all threads with compiling or rendering workloads, it doesn't seem to be uncommon from what I gathered, it might be a Ryzen quirk, but I'm not sure if this is limited to the first batches (which apparently all have the SEGV issue).

You can try disabling the MicroOP cache in the BIOS if you have the option for it, or disabling SMT and see if that has any effect. Both come with a performance impact, but supposedly it worked for some people based on what I read on the phoronix forums.

I didn't know all of the early Ryzen chips had it, I will try disabling multi-threading later but as far as I know I don't have the MicroOP option. To be honest I'm a little annoyed at Overclockers in this instance, I understand they can't normally do on-sight exchanges but AMD themselves have acknowledged & confirmed the issue (as well as a load of review sites) and it feels like I'm now being punished for something that is completely out of my control. Overclockers telling me I'll have to wait a month will not just loose my me job, but will leave me with absolutely nothing to do (well except go to the pub) in that time since I only have my computer as a source of entertainment and the only way I connect with people as I don't have a phone.

Rainmaker · 28 Sep 2017 at 09:45

Chaoss said:
Also when following the instructions here: https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win I don't get freezing or errors in the console on Windows but it does crash after a while

Is it supposed to do that?

Did you actually read the info on the Github page you downloaded that program from? I just did and it clearly says if you get JIT popups (like the one you posted) then you need to close them all before the actual script will print an error, and it's caused by a hardware error.

when cmd.exe crashes you may see JIT debugger popups like this

this is probably the crash described in https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win/issues/1, and indicates a hardware problem

With respect, if you rely on your machine for work surely you are either (1) employed and it's your employer's problem, or (2) self employed and have some kind of plan for when hardware - inevitably - fails? This CPU definitely needs RMA. Can you not perhaps buy a 1600 even, to get you through the month and then sell it on?