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God

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Illgresi, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. kedge

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 5, 2010

    Posts: 3,687

    The if is a supposition, what I mean is you assume that a God created all men and women which I know can't be true because I and many others were created by our biological human parents, and I doubt even a rational thinking human being would deliberately want to bring into existence a murderer or a rapist. I am somewhat religious.
     
  2. Doobedoo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 24, 2016

    Posts: 2,068

    Location: South West

    I don’t really like posting in these threads as it invites too many close minded folk, but I would like to share some Alan Watts, as he is someone who had a truly brilliant mind. His depth of knowledge (especially about religions) and ability to communicate complex concepts in easy to understand, witty ways is matched by very few. If anyone could explain it he’d have a pretty good shot.

    Alan Watts - Q & A with God. https://sanjindumisic.com/alan-watts-on-being-god-transcript-of-the-question-and-answers/
    Alan Watts’ Magnificent Explanation of Human Nature

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  3. Doobedoo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 24, 2016

    Posts: 2,068

    Location: South West

     
  4. ebilcake

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2007

    Posts: 906

    God, does not exist.

    Religion is just an endless cycle of brainwashing, the kids don't get a choice. I'd even argue that exposing children to religion early is child abuse.

    Half of our family are churchgoers and we don't get on at all, most of their kids have been in trouble with the police or been to jail for various reasons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  5. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 6,042

    Location: South Shields

    church of scotland or free church of scotland??


    wee frees use to chain the kids swings on a sunday so nobody could enjoy themselves.
     
  6. Minstadave

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 25,162

    Location: Rutland

    I think this is something that we will look back on in future with alarm. The infiltration of education by religious organisations is disturbing. I would strongly support secular education with balanced information on all forms of religion.
     
  7. something daft already!!

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 11, 2007

    Posts: 4,538

    Location: South East

    You don't know this for sure.

    But I am 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain this is true.
     
  8. ebilcake

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2007

    Posts: 906

    I'd say prove me wrong, but it's like asking somebody to prove that the tooth fairy or Santa exists. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  9. something daft already!!

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 11, 2007

    Posts: 4,538

    Location: South East

    It's also possible that the universe was farted out by universe farting fairies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  10. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 5,142

    Location: Essex

    All I can do is recommend that you spend some time listening to the Atheist Experience. I had an eye condition earlier this year that immobilised me for several weeks straight, and listening to their weekly show truly helped me through,

    http://www.atheist-experience.com/

    If I were you I would consider phoning in for advice myself.
     
  11. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 5,142

    Location: Essex

    I agree with this entirely. As a sceptic I'm more than open to contrary evidence, but this is where that evidence currently leads the rational mind.
     
  12. Gray2233

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 25, 2010

    Posts: 1,073

    Surely the most important thing you can do is give your children choice?

    Do not colour their opinion, do not tell them X is right and Y is wrong. Let them decide for themselves, unlike many who are so adamant and demanding in this thread. I'm an agnostic verging on atheism, but I very much think it's important to teach your children to think for themselves. Don't try to force them one way or another.
     
  13. GordyR

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 5,142

    Location: Essex

    Absolutely. As a humanist and sceptic I'm obviously going to agree with you. I believe that choice ultimately leads to people thinking critically, freely and sceptically.

    I would personally love to rid the world of religion; I consider it to be horrifically damaging; but the last thing I would want to do is to force people. I value freedom far to greatly to resort to the kind of tactics that religions themselves have used throughout the years.

    Over time... Liberty, logic and rationality will win.
     
  14. Gray2233

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 25, 2010

    Posts: 1,073

    Absolutely.

    I believe that with a varied and well implemented education, eventually people are going to agree. That agreement holds a requirement however, the person behind it must have a principled mind. You can't demand people think X or Y, you can only debate and draw them to the water.

    You must give options or ultimately you'll face rebellion.
     
  15. adolf hamster

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2012

    Posts: 7,042

    Tbh i think its one of those unprovable things if you apply enough interpretation.

    There are still unanswered questions in this universe, and its possible we may never truly know the how and the why of everything which means for the time being there's always going to be room for a creator of some form to be behind the veil.

    That said, i dont beleive in the notion of a god as prescribed by the major religions, ie the dude who created everything and supposedly loves us whilst simaltaneously setting arbitrary rules on how to conduct our lives lest we face eternal suffering and letting horrible things happen to good people.

    I dont know if there's an afterlife, or reincarnation, but i do know i have a life right now and based on the information i have in front of me i will do my best to enjoy the world as i know it, because it'd be really annoying to live as a hermit all your days only to find out it just goes black forever. I will choose my morality because it fits with the world and the people i live with not because it's some kind of access pass for the great celestial after party, and when i die i'll do the same thing.

    All that said, the world might well be a better place if people stopped using religion to justify their actions, the phrase "god with us" has appeared on both sides of enough wars to show that religion (seperate from individual spirituality and beleifs) isnt a good thing for the world.
     
  16. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 65,246

    I've always tried to live my life by simply asking "what impact do my actions have on someone else?" as my morality - while there is always going to be some degree of interpretation/perspective (we don't always understand other people's circumstances or motivations, etc.) and subjectiveness I don't really need religion to tell me right from wrong and I find it very hard to accept that some people need to learn right from wrong in a lot of cases.
     
  17. Sudden

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 15, 2005

    Posts: 2,795

    Location: London

    I'm not sure it's right that religious organisations "infiltrated" education. The religious organisations were the ones which spread learning/education in the first place a lot of times (admittedly a biased view). It wasn't ideal, but back then, was the way to get education as the priests/holy men were the "learned" ones, at least comparitively speaking and though they were spreading just their own religious view, it came with other than things like reading and writing.

    I could be wrong - this isn't based on a single source, just an opinion based on general knowledge gathered over the years.

    In any event - I don't think that's the case anymore though and government rather than religious education exists and is widespread, so the above no longer applies. Just wanted to comment on the use of "infiltration" as that, to me, implies that it secretly got in there and biased things, whereas I think it was quite overt and over the last couple of hundred years or so has started to diverge.

    Secular education makes complete sense to me, but I'm not particularly religious so that probably has something to do with it.

    One question/thought - the UK is constitutionally a Christian country, right? The Queen is the "defender of the faith" etc. Given that, does secular education make sense (at least until it remains a Christian country)? I grew up in India which is a secular country. Religion was never a part of education beyond some basic stuff like which texts came first - nothing about belief. That makes sense given no religion is really taught in a secular country. Does the same apply in a "Christian" country?
     
  18. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 10,155

    I was indoctrinated from an early age, RC primary school, RC secondary school, wed in a Catholic church etc etc etc.
    Over the last few years my faith has all but disappeared, and when I look at things like the latest terrorist attack in London, how could I align thoughts of 'turn the other cheek' and 'forgiveness' when I would have quite happily skinned the scumbag alive given the opportunity.
    Not very Christian of me.
     
  19. krooton

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 25,559

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    But just the right amount of Catholic guilt ;)
     
  20. ivrytwr3

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 25, 2006

    Posts: 3,616

    It's very fortunate that we were all born into the right country with the one true God.