Soldato
Well hopefully they are more like Scottish Natural Heritage.
It's possible to reintroduce a species in the UK, like beavers
Golden Eagles could be returning to Snowdonia.
- Thread starter Yadda
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Well hopefully they are more like Scottish Natural Heritage.
It's possible to reintroduce a species in the UK, like beavers
Well farmers do tend to be against everything that doesn't immediately benefit them.
That is very much the impression I have got reading about multiple schemes that farmers have blocked or attempted to block.
Caporegime
Considering how often birds turn up poisoned or just disappear up here it's logical.
I was walking on a country road some years ago, and just scrambling around in the shrub/brambles (looking for old mine-shafts in case anyone is wondering).
Found an entire mound of fox corpses, piled up and rotting (but still quite fresh). The farmer half-heartedly covered them with a few branches. This was public land btw; a coppice next to a road.
Any wildlife that upsets a farmer is doomed. That's the reality.
And with legitimate reasoning too.
So why would a "farmer" be poisening these birds.
And you knew it was the farmer responsible how exactly?
If we all chose only to act in our own best financial interests at all times, we'd be a miserable and unethical bunch.
Also as to your challenge that it isn't farmers killing stuff...
Realistically nobody else is doing it when there are no houses for miles around.
You think some random just has a vendetta against foxes somewhere out int he countryside?
And the farmers down here are all avid hunt supporters too. So either way, really.
Completely agree, but these schemes do need to be challenged and scrutinised by those it will effect.
Well actually people will travel miles to go shooting, ferreting and coursing so yes.
You come across quite bitter with a big chip on your shoulder throwing around accusations like the above.
Soldato
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Shooting foxes isn't illegal only hunting them with hounds. So they're well within their rights to do so.
But yeah, this'll never get off the ground too many vested interests against it and they'd need round the clock protection.
But yeah, this'll never get off the ground too many vested interests against it and they'd need round the clock protection.
and how will eagles affect farmers in any real material way? we've already established there's going to be 10 birds, and there were plans to reintroduce another species for them to hunt. people are talking like each eagle is going to specifically target lambs and eat 20 a day or something.
Farmers object to everything that involves some form of change when they think there could (potentially, maybe) be some small measure of harm for them. Or if nobody is prepared to give them something they want in return for their approval.
That's just how it is. Farmers have an awful lot of power, are highly unionised, and object to everything they don't like, for any reason at all.
They were against beavers being introduced because it might alter their farmland (storm in a teacup); are pro badger culling and everything else culling; and would like nothing more than the only species in existence to be sheep, pigs, horses, cattle and sheepdogs. Everything else potentially spreads infection to their livestock (suspicion proven or otherwise), or damages their crops, or eats their chickens - so they are pre-disposed to be anti pretty much all forms of wildlife.
That's just how it is. Farming is business. It's as amoral as any other business.
Caporegime
Because they're convinced species such as red kite are a threat to their lambs. We also have issues whereby those that use part of their land for game hunting target them due to their natural diet of pheasants and the likes.
Even farmers weekly seem to think they're in on it...
https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/crime/rspb-targets-tougher-penalties-for-bird-crimes-on-farms
I dont agree that this will not get off the ground. I feel it has a greater chance than some other projects. I personally dont have anything against the reintroduction but i would be keeping a close eye on the project.
I think it is not the now its what happens in the future. How that species spreads and evolves. We have a lot of Kite's around us, 10 years ago it was not the same, and we used have a lot more smaller birds. The population of kite locally is boosted by the feeding centres and when they do their daily feeding for the tourists the sky is blanketed with them. That to me is not sustainable, and what detrimental effect is it having those numbers doing to other wildlife species.
Without giving specifics its quite difficult to debate your point (not that you seem to want to do much besides slander the term "farmer").
As a whole they own land which other people want to make changes too, of course they are going to be cautious when it comes to change. At the end of the day they own it.
Laughable. The farming industry in the last 20 years has declined dramatically. There where far more farms and farmers than there are today, A small farm could provide a living for an entire family back then. If the industry had the "awful lot of power" you claim then it would be doing farm better than what it is.
Again just another bitter accusation. Show me on teddy bear where the farmer hurt you.
Please introduce me to a livestock farmer that thinks kite will take a lamb. You and the article are talking about game here, and specifically on massive estates. They are not farmers, they are game keepers, theirs a difference, those game keepers are not working for the farmer either before you try that angle. Most of these estates are owned by a Lord or lady and the farms are rented out to tenant famers who have no say as to what goes on regarding shoots, Even some farms owned by a farmer can quite often have no say as the "sporting rights" can remain in the old estates name letting them shoot across a farmers land as they please.
Caporegime
Google 'farmers against birds of prey' plenty there to get you going.
Is that the first thing you did when I challenged your accusation?
well you could argue the eradication of keystone species/apex predators (eagles, wolves) is far more detrimental - just look at the state of deer in Scotland. there was a recent report that reintroducing wolves to one of the US parks had a massively more harmonising effect than any human attempts. reintroducing those keystone species should not even be an arguable point, IMO.
All of the things I mentioned are common knowledge. I'm not even saying anything controversial.
Farmers are in favour of culling multiple species of wild animals because of the suspicion that it spreads diseases to cattle. Despite a complete lack of scientific consensus that it would make any difference. They do kill wildlife for a whole variety of reasons, including so-called "sport".
They are against all reintroductions of extinct British species. Everything from beavers to birds to prey, lynx, etc - farmers have opposed all of those proposals. They don't exactly hide that fact. They're quite happy to appear on CountryFile (etc) voicing their disapproval at any scheme that they don't like.
They do have power - like you said they are often landowners - and they are highly unionised. They (like other big business) continually lobby the government and have the power to influence policy. Especially on the environment, where their lobbying directly influences the government's environment policies.
Sadly neither of those will happen. Natural England has made it quite clear the intend to set the barrier so high, nobody can meet the criteria they demand.
You would literally need to be able to predict the animal's precise movements and behaviour at all times to satisfy them. Also they want scientific papers published to journals; multi-year funding; professional rangers on hand 7 days a week; 24/7 monitoring of all release animals...
And that barely scratches the surface.
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Associate
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go for it. reintroduce them. i love lambs, foxes and cats but its the food chain.
Caporegime
No otherwise I would have posted links. However you seem completely unwilling to accept the facts so I'm instructing you how you can go about obtaining some.