Maybe I just misunderstood but I thought you were moaning at him for the 20 point think?
Greenlizard0 PL Football Thread Final Day ** spoilers ** [26th July 2020]
- Thread starter Shamikebab
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Maybe I just misunderstood but I thought you were moaning at him for the 20 point think?
He said that after I said the nobody said that lol. Weirdly I can't predict the future.
20 pts is on the high end but it seems reasonable that with Pogba and Fernandes for the first half of the season we'd have been in a much better situation points wise.
This seems to come down to the usual thing of United fans saying we're playing better and changes have been positive and other fans jumping on us with the usual your players are only good enough for bottom half teams and you're not going to win next year how deluded are you.
There is a trend in football fans nowadays where if you aren't the best you're ****. A player is either the best in the league or he's not even good enough to be fourth choice. A lot in this thread are very guilty of it.
Including United fans. United fans on here and on twitter / redcafe are lauding Fernandes as if he's the best player in the league. He isnt...he's a good player but has a long way to go before he's up there.
Your similar with Pogba to be fair.
Combining football with internet forums/social media will only ever result in hysteria and exaggerations. You can't single out opposition fans in this though Shami - you only have to look at the constant changing opinions of your own fans with your own team to see that. Pogba almost from day one has divided Utd's support - even under Mourinho there was a section of Utd fans that wanted Pogba out. He and Ole suddenly became the 2nd coming after Ole's first few months but by the end of last season Pogba was on the hit list for a big chunk of your support again. Fast forward to half way through the season just gone and I think it's fair to say that an even bigger chunk, if not the majority of Utd fans wanted him and Ole gone and now here we are at the end of the season with comparisons being made between Ole & Klopp and "if Pogba was available...." comments.
This is why I've called Utd a streaky side and said that they need to prove that they can replicate what they've done in 3 months over 10 months. Utd have swung back and forwards from being a great team to being fairly average (in your own supporters words) far too often over the last 7 years.
This is why I've called Utd a streaky side and said that they need to prove that they can replicate what they've done in 3 months over 10 months. Utd have swung back and forwards from being a great team to being fairly average (in your own supporters words) far too often over the last 7 years.
Caporegime
This is what I hope will change in the next season but time will only tell if that does happen. We had a major clearout last summer and this summer needs players to supplement the squad plus a second wave of getting rid of squad members. Europa League will be a test for those squad players to prove their worth. (I am looking at you Lingard)
I didn't exclude United fans, I said football fans.
I think saying a big chunk wanted Pogba gone for his performances is not true, most were unhappy with the off the field stuff with his agent and family. Again with the ridiculous hyperbole though.
As for Fernandes, he's clearly one of the better players in the league right now. With Eriksen gone and now Silva leaving he's probably the best 10 in the league. Omnomnom has a bucket load of bias towards United players as can be seen by his comments about Maguire. You're just incapable of commenting on them
I think saying a big chunk wanted Pogba gone for his performances is not true, most were unhappy with the off the field stuff with his agent and family. Again with the ridiculous hyperbole though.
As for Fernandes, he's clearly one of the better players in the league right now. With Eriksen gone and now Silva leaving he's probably the best 10 in the league. Omnomnom has a bucket load of bias towards United players as can be seen by his comments about Maguire. You're just incapable of commenting on them
I never said people wanted him gone for his performances and you can't deny that people wanted him gone.
As for Omnom and his comments regarding Maguire, maybe he's exaggerating in what he's said but when you pay £85m on somebody he's going to attract more attention and there will be higher expectations than another signing. Maguire's not a world class CB and certainly isn't worth anything close to £80m odd, equally he's better than CB's playing for Bournemouth and Norwich - there's a massive gap in between those two extremes where Maguire and his massive head just about fit into.
As for "you're just incapable of commenting on them", is that aimed at me?
I comment on pretty much everything and am sure I commented on Maguire just earlier today.
As for Omnom and his comments regarding Maguire, maybe he's exaggerating in what he's said but when you pay £85m on somebody he's going to attract more attention and there will be higher expectations than another signing. Maguire's not a world class CB and certainly isn't worth anything close to £80m odd, equally he's better than CB's playing for Bournemouth and Norwich - there's a massive gap in between those two extremes where Maguire and his massive head just about fit into.
As for "you're just incapable of commenting on them", is that aimed at me?
I comment on pretty much everything and am sure I commented on Maguire just earlier today.LOL I dont think Maguires any good and he isnt proving me wrong at the moment is he. Hes an absolute unit and his pace dictates the way you have to defend. I have also said I think Greenwood is a real talent, the only time ive gone against a comment someone made about him when there were Michael Owen comparisons.
@BaZ87 I am exaggerating, i think thats pretty obvious when i call him smeg. He isnt actually a fridge...he just reminds me of one.
No that was directed against om.
Regarding Pogba I think some wanted him to leave (I'm reluctant to say most as much like you I don't know what the majority of our very large fanbase thinks) when it wasn't clear whether he was committed to the club. Now that he seems to be happier here with the club moving in a better direction isn't it understandable people want him to say? Whether people accept it or not he's one of the best midfielders in the world.
As far as Maguire, the fee is irrelevant. It's sunk cost, when saying whether a defender has had a good season or not it doesn't matter what their transfer fee is. Should we be saying Rashford is infinitely better than Martial because he was cheaper? of course not, a player's performance is judged against their peers no matter what price they were. Maguire is one of the best defenders in the league, up there with VVD and Laporte as the top three probably.
Regarding Pogba I think some wanted him to leave (I'm reluctant to say most as much like you I don't know what the majority of our very large fanbase thinks) when it wasn't clear whether he was committed to the club. Now that he seems to be happier here with the club moving in a better direction isn't it understandable people want him to say? Whether people accept it or not he's one of the best midfielders in the world.
As far as Maguire, the fee is irrelevant. It's sunk cost, when saying whether a defender has had a good season or not it doesn't matter what their transfer fee is. Should we be saying Rashford is infinitely better than Martial because he was cheaper? of course not, a player's performance is judged against their peers no matter what price they were. Maguire is one of the best defenders in the league, up there with VVD and Laporte as the top three probably.
Bloody hell mate. He really isnt...he isnt even close.
As I said, you've shown you aren't really capable of judging 
He even got in the BBC team of the year alongside VVD.
He even got in the BBC team of the year alongside VVD.
As I said, you've shown you aren't really capable of judging
He even got in the BBC team of the year alongside VVD.
Considering you're putting him up there with VVD i think you really need to be looking a bit closer to home when it comes to bias.
He did indeed. This is the Garth Crooks team of the year I assume you're referring to?
Garth Crooks...LOL
Rewind 9 months and if we polled Utd fans on here I'd say a big majority had enough of him and wanted him gone. As for the it being understandable that people want him to now stay, my opinion would be no (which I'll explain below) but that's not the point I was making. Pogba kind of sums up Utd over the last few years, he's either hot or he's cold - one minute he's playing well and everything looks great, the next minute he's either not playing (for one reason or another) or casually wondering around the pitch and people are screaming abuse at him. He's one of the most talented midfielders in the world, he's not consistely performed as one of the best in the world though.
The point about the fee for Maguire is not that he's better or worse than a cheaper player but what you expect from him and why he will attract more criticism than somebody signed for £25m. In the same way your expectations over the quality of food you get when going to a top end restaurant will be different than going to McDonalds. Utd paid 3 star michelin money for Maguire and have got Harvester quality performances. He's done alright but Utd didn't spend £85m for alright, they spent it expecting world class performances. It's the same with Pogba btw.
And why I don't understand the Pogba situation, it's because I've no doubt that he doesn't want to be at the club. He's asked to leave for 2 summers running. Having not got his move he's then picked up an injury that was meant to keep him out for a few days and despite being able to pull off all sorts of dance moves at his brothers wedding, he didn't feature for Utd months. He then comes back and shortly after, he not Utd, decides that he needs surgery. Before we get to the "you think he was faking it" question, no I don't. I'm sure he had a minor injury but I'm equally sure that had he wanted to be at Utd, he'd have been playing on with it and or back a hell of a lot sooner than he was, just like we see countless other players do. The fact that Ole came out and told the press that Pogba took the decision to have surgery and not the club, when he knew it would cause massive speculation and controversy, tells you all you need to know. He might look like a competition winner but he's not stupid. You then have all the comments from his agent, which of course Pogba would have known about and allowed to go out.
Pre covid Pogba was leaving Utd this summer. The only reason he's staying is because there's no market for him anymore. Real, PSG or Juve couldn't justify signing him last summer when they were throwing money around but with budgets slashed, there's no prospect of him leaving unless Utd accepted a ridiculously low bid which they obviously won't. I would be stunned if at some point next season we're not talking about Pogba leaving Utd again.
There is like 9 fans on here, they're hardly representative of the millions fanbase we have.
As I said, that is all speculation without much basis. If you're seriously comparing dancing at a wedding with playing professional football then...
There were some people on here who said he was faking it and would never play for Utd again and...oh look he's playing for Utd again. I think he simply wants to be at a top club and the direction things were taking last summer were concerning as to whether we could get there. Much the same as when Rooney asked for a transfer.
Pogba will always be judged harsher than any other player, for some reason people expect him to be Kante, Xavi and Nedved all in one. No other midfielder gets these kind of expectations put on them. The media put it out because they know the ABU crowd will lap it up and sadly it works.
As I said, that is all speculation without much basis. If you're seriously comparing dancing at a wedding with playing professional football then...
There were some people on here who said he was faking it and would never play for Utd again and...oh look he's playing for Utd again. I think he simply wants to be at a top club and the direction things were taking last summer were concerning as to whether we could get there. Much the same as when Rooney asked for a transfer.
Pogba will always be judged harsher than any other player, for some reason people expect him to be Kante, Xavi and Nedved all in one. No other midfielder gets these kind of expectations put on them. The media put it out because they know the ABU crowd will lap it up and sadly it works.
You could have polled a dedicated Utd forum and you'd have got the same results.
You've earlier complained about somebody saying something no Utd fan has said and now you're doing it yourself. I didn't compare dancing to playing football. The fact that he was able to dance and jump around at his brothers wedding, along with the fact that Solskjaer initally said he'd only be out for a few days and then later as good as said that Utd didn't think he needed the surgery all adds up when questioning just how injured he was and whether he really needed to miss 6+ months.
He's playing for Utd again because he has no choice. As I said, he couldn't leave even when clubs had money, let alone now. And it wasn't just last summer that he wanted to leave, he wanted the leave the summer before when you'd just finished 2nd.
And yes, Pogba will be judged harsher because he's Utd's highest profile player and cost £100m. This isn't new or unique to Utd, if a club spends huge money on a player and they don't perform to the level expected of them (and even you cannot say that Pogba's been the signing Utd hoped he'd become 4 years ago) then they'll attract criticism.
If Pogba was refusing to play then it would be leaked, no way is that kind of thing kept secret.
Pogba has consistently been our best player, I don't think any more was expected of him. Rather the disappointments have been that until now we haven't been able to get the quality around him. No world class player can win competitions single handedly.
So I've been missing the weekly articles about Kepa have I? He cost almost as much as Pogba yet it's Chelsea and nobody cares. Everybody wants to read about Utd.
Pogba has consistently been our best player, I don't think any more was expected of him. Rather the disappointments have been that until now we haven't been able to get the quality around him. No world class player can win competitions single handedly.
So I've been missing the weekly articles about Kepa have I? He cost almost as much as Pogba yet it's Chelsea and nobody cares. Everybody wants to read about Utd.
Refusing to play is quite a specific statement but ultimately not too different than Pogba deciding he's not fit to play, despite the club disagreeing. Beyond directly saying, we think Pogba's fine to play but he doesn't, what more could Solksjaer have said to make it any clearer that he/Utd didn't think his injury was nearly serious enough to keep him out for months and require surgery?
Being your best player is both subjective and doesn't mean he's lived up to expectations. Maybe your expectations were much lower but you only have to look at how many of your own fans, on multiple occasions have called for him to be sold to see that Pogba hasn't been the signing many hoped he'd be.
And you're joking about Kepa? He had a period of grace but for a year now there's been articles around his future and saying he's not good enough. And I'd like to add that I've called Kepa **** far more than any Utd player and done so for well over a year too.
And as I said that has nothing to do with his on pitch performances. So it's not because he's underachieved. I'd comfortably say there are five times as many articles about Pogba as Kepa, if not more.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdsPDzbX0AElMOh?format=png&name=large
Does that look like a player that is not performing consistently?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdsPDzbX0AElMOh?format=png&name=large
Does that look like a player that is not performing consistently?
And as I said, Pogba hasn't been the signing Utd hoped he'd become. That doesn't only cover his performances on the pitch, although I don't believe Utd have got value for what they paid even if we only looked at his performances on the pitch. You only have to look down the road at City and KdB to see the gulf in performance levels between the best player in the world in his position.
And yes, there will be more articles around Pogba than Kepa because he's a higher profile player. That's just common sense but all underperforming high profile and or expensive players will receive criticism. How much will depends on their profile.
And the graph and question is so wild. You've put up a graph that shows Pogba's output in 1200 minutes of football, where he's created fewer chances per 90 than James Maddison and about the same as Grealish & Buendia and asked if that's a player not performing consistently. For a start it's a tiny sample size over a short period of time so I'm not sure how you can comment on his consistency but it's the one area of his game where Pogba should excel. His game is around being the central point of a side, getting on the ball and creating attacks and (when he does play) he plays in a side set-up to allow him to play that way.