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Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [24th - 29th November 2017]

Discussion in 'The Football Stadium' started by Cosimo, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. Cosimo

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jan 9, 2007

    Posts: 163,607

    Location: Londinium

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  2. Shamikebab

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 9, 2006

    Posts: 49,127

    Location: Surrey

    I'm not understanding the new diving rules. If you manage to foul the ref and earn a penalty you get a 2 game ban, but if you don't fool him you get nothing? That makes no sense.
     
  3. seaviewuk

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 4,312

    Location: Brighton

    :D 7 match ban!!

    If he judges that it's a clear dive then the player usually gets a yellow card. He has received no advantage to his cheating. But if the ref/lino is fooled and a penalty is awarded then he has received advantage, even more if his team scores.

    I'd like the retrospective action to include wiping any resulting goal off the result and amending the points in the table for the clubs involved if necessary.
     
  4. alex h

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 13, 2009

    Posts: 2,539

    West Bromwich 1 Spurs 0
     
  5. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    They aren't supposed to make sense, they're designed to have areas of ambiguity to allow the panel to cherry pick which teams they punish and which teams they don't.

    I'll qualify my opinion with the fact that I'm an Everton fan. I think Niasse getting banned is a bit of a farce. He isn't the first and he won't be the last to go down easily in the box. Scott Dann did come across him, he did not make an attempt to win the ball. Niasse knocked the ball too far and would have lost possession and went down far too easily but I don't feel that he has cheated because Dann did come across him and tried to block him off.

    If Niasse had hung a leg out and deliberately initiated contact, as is seen so often, then I'd be more sympathetic with the decision. Players often do this, they see a challenge come in so deliberately put their leg out in an unnatural position to ensure that they make contact with the challenge and then go down for a penalty.
     
  6. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    Raheem Sterling has been booked twice so far for diving. Should he dive again in a match and receive a yellow card then no further action will be taken until he accumulates enough yellows to get a 1 game ban.

    Surely a player that is booked for diving on a number of occasions should face some form of penalty beyond just a yellow card.
     
  7. Shamikebab

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 9, 2006

    Posts: 49,127

    Location: Surrey

    Agreed, it seems like the punishment for getting caught is pretty much nothing, every so often you get a yellow but a lot of the time the ref just seems to brush it off and give nothing.
     
  8. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    Yeah. I understand that side of it and agree. Gaining a penalty through deception does more damage than just being caught and getting no penalty.

    My point is that if we are going to go down the road of retrospective punishment then what about other players who may have a track record of diving and attempting to deceive the referee.

    I fully appreciate that it's a different situation and that I'm going down the roads of ifs and buts.
     
  9. Maundie

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 20, 2010

    Posts: 2,271

    Agreed, what has Man City gained by Sterling getting caught and given a yellow whereas Everton gained a point by Niasse diving and getting a pen, also if Niasse would've been caught he would've gotten a yellow and didn't he already have a yellow in the game so would've got a red and been down to 10.
     
  10. Shamikebab

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 9, 2006

    Posts: 49,127

    Location: Surrey

    My problem is you're punishing based on the outcome not the intent. You're essentially saying diving is fine unless you're seriously profiting from it. Diving in the middle of the park should be punished as harshly as diving in the area. It's the only way to cut it out of the league.
     
  11. Maundie

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 20, 2010

    Posts: 2,271

    Yep 100%, any kind of simulation should be punished the same way
     
  12. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    I'm not the only person who thinks Niasse's ban is a farce. Going down too easily is not a dive. The fact is that Scott Dann did cut across Niasse and block him off. Even a slight nudge would be enough to knock a player out of his stride and prevent them from taking a shot at goal. Damn had no intention of challenging for the ball and every intention of impeding Niasse.

    That's why I feel the charge of diving is unfair. If he had thrown himself over a challenge and videos showed the challenge made no contact then fair enough. I've berated Ross Barkley myself for doing such a thing and it is something that Everton fans, in general, are not comfortable with their players doing. It's not exactly a "dogs of war" thing to do.
     
  13. BaZ87

    Don

    Joined: Jun 9, 2004

    Posts: 36,075

    Where do you draw the line though? Are you then going to start taking retrospective action for all fouls that are missed by the ref too?

    I guess diving falls into the same category as fouls that deny goalscoring opportunities. A trip 50 yards from goal with 4 men behind the ball doesn't get the same punishment as a trip when you're the last man, stopping an opponent having an easy chance on goal. You're gaining a far bigger advantage with the latter therefore the punishment has to be greater. A CB diving when he's put under a bit of pressure around his area isn't gaining the same advantage as a forward that's dived to get the opponent sent off or win a penalty therefore the punishment can't be the same.

    Is diving a problem regardless of where it happens on the pitch? Yes but the main issue is diving that significantly effects the outcome of the game (for pens and red cards). A CB diving on the edge of his own area to win a cheap free-kick is no more an issue than shirt pulling or cynical trips anywhere around the pitch and we don't look at them retrospectively.
     
  14. Shamikebab

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 9, 2006

    Posts: 49,127

    Location: Surrey

    But then what if the striker gets a yellow from that dive and can't pressure as much? That could seriously affect the game.

    in the end conning the ref is conning the ref. it should be treated the same wherever it is on the pitch.
     
  15. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    Niasse is not a famous player but, if iirc, Alexis Sanchez did something very similar earlier in the season and no diving panel was consulted about it. All we want is some continuity from the referees and these retrospective decisions.

    Like I said, I've already stated I'm an Everton fan, take from that what you will. I think Niasse's ban is a farce and had it been a Liverpool player that received the ban I could and would look past any club bias when judging it myself.

    In my personal opinion going down softly under a challenge is NOT diving. If he had stayed on his feet and scuffed the shot then no penalty would have been awarded and Scott Dann would have gotten away with making a challenge with no intent of winning the ball and denying a goal scoring opportunity.

    I'm of the belief that staying on your feet and trying to ride a poor challenge is a fools errand. Please show me the incidences where referees have pulled back play for a penalty when a player has tried to stay honest and continue play after being fouled.
     
  16. Robbo

    Don

    Joined: Jan 2, 2009

    Posts: 53,195

    We are making a mess of this Brighton game, very poor so far.
     
  17. Shamikebab

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 9, 2006

    Posts: 49,127

    Location: Surrey

    Just standard cluelessness, we don't look like we know what to do with the ball. I give it 15 mins before we take Martial and Mata off for Fellaini and Zlatan and just hoof it at them.