GRRRRRRRRRr why are there no good ISP providors?

Combat squirrel · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:08

Iv searched ALL of adslguide, looked at all previous posts on OCUK, all im after is:

4 to 8 meg broadband line, NO usage limits, NO caps whatsoever, NO speed regrading your line if you download a lot, NO changing phone companys, I need to stay with BT for there call barring features, ALL for a reasonable price

Im currently on pipex 2mb for 23.44 a month with absolutly NO caps at all, this is great, I basically want that but an 8mb line for around the same price or less, is this possible ?

Beerbaron · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:11

Pipex has a fair usage policy by the way

tolien · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:12

Unless you pay more, no, unlimited usage isn't feasible.

Zen'll give you an unlimited service with no traffic shaping on their Office products. Expect to pay £93 a month though...

Combat squirrel · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:12

Beerbaron said:
Pipex has a fair usage policy by the way

It does now, my contract with them is 3 years old, back in the day when there were no fair usage policys

Combat squirrel · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:20

does encripting p2p work on all isp's? if so ill just get an unlimited 8mb with fair usage and then encript, then they carnt tell its p2p

Deathwish · 3 Jul 2006 at 13:46

Combat squirrel said:
does encripting p2p work on all isp's? if so ill just get an unlimited 8mb with fair usage and then encript, then they carnt tell its p2p

Not always, they can choose to throttle everything thats encrypted, or more likely detect how much you are transfering and move you onto a "bad boy" pipe or just throttle your whole connection.

What you are after does not exist anymore im affraid

kitfit1 · 3 Jul 2006 at 17:44

As Tolien has said Zen is about your only option at the moment. Realistically things will only change when the price of BT Centrals comes down and LLU is rolled out across the vast majority of uk exchanges(was that 2 pigs just flew past my window).

Al Vallario · 3 Jul 2006 at 18:02

Combat squirrel said:
It does now, my contract with them is 3 years old, back in the day when there were no fair usage policys

Pipex Acceptable Use Policy said:
Pipex reserves the right to modify this Policy at any time. Changes made to the Policy become effective upon posting of the modified Policy to this URL. It is the User's responsibility to ensure their awareness of any such changes.

The new AUP/FUP applies to all customers, no matter how long they have been with Pipex.

Berserker · 3 Jul 2006 at 18:46

kitfit1 said:
(was that 2 pigs just flew past my window).

I saw them too. Must be flying pig season.

The answer is no, there is no such product that meets your criteria (or if there is and you choose them, expect to be back here in six months asking for a new ISP, because the one you were using just went bust). The fact is, BT Centrals cost mega money and they have to be paid for.

kitfit1 · 3 Jul 2006 at 21:52

Berserker said:
The answer is no, there is no such product that meets your criteria (or if there is and you choose them, expect to be back here in six months asking for a new ISP, because the one you were using just went bust). The fact is, BT Centrals cost mega money and they have to be paid for.

There is, as Tolien said Zen will do it at £93 a month with there office package. You would have to be a serious downloader to stump up that sort of cash every month though.

tolien · 3 Jul 2006 at 22:37

kitfit1 said:
There is, as Tolien said Zen will do it at £93 a month with there office package. You would have to be a serious downloader to stump up that sort of cash every month though.

There isn't. One of the criteria was "reasonable price" - I doubt the OP considers £93pm a "reasonable price".

CurlyWhirly · 3 Jul 2006 at 23:02

Berserker said:
The fact is, BT Centrals cost mega money and they have to be paid for.

I wonder how much BT actually charge for their Centrals?

It can't be that much if £93 a month means that you can download 24/7 as surely this would cost Zen more than £93 making them lose money unless a FUP is hidden in the small print somewhere :confused:

tolien · 3 Jul 2006 at 23:36

CurlyWhirly said:
I wonder how much BT actually charge for their Centrals?

Link (that'll probably break soon).

Zen use CBC, so the relevant parts are:

The following connection charges apply to the BT Central service for Capacity Charging:
Operative Date 28-05-2004

BT Central 155 Mbit/s 28-05-2004 50000.00 58750.00

BT Central 155 Mbit/s L2TP Passthrough 28-05-2004 50000.00 58750.00

BT Central 622 Mbit/s L2TP Passthrough 28-05-2004 175000.00 205625.

The following annual rental charges apply to the BT Central service for Capacity Charging:
Operative Date 28-05-2004

BT Central 155 Mbit/s 28-05-2004 347400.00 408195.00

BT Central 155 Mbit/s L2TP Passthrough 28-05-2004 316200.00 371535.00

BT Central 622 Mbit/s L2TP Passthrough 28-05-2004 1496760.00 1758693.00

(columns are: Service, Operative Date, Price ex VAT, Price inc VAT)

Standard Charging is cheaper but you get incrementing prices with sync rate. IIRC there's no Max option either (and to satisfy Ofcom, it would need to be ~£120 per user per month).
UBC has cheaper Centrals, but a per kbps per month charge on top.

It can't be that much if £93 a month means that you can download 24/7 as surely this would cost Zen more than £93 making them lose money unless a FUP is hidden in the small print somewhere

Zen are betting that you aren't maxing out 24/7, as they are with their Home offerings. If enough users signed up for Zen's Office8000, and maxed it out 24 hours a day, they'd have to cap/traffic shape/FUP.

Topgun · 3 Jul 2006 at 23:52

The way I understand it; BT was forced to charge these outrageous prices by ofcom to make llu offerings more attractive, increase unbundling and there by improving consumer choice. It seems to have worked because I'm moving to bulldog!

CurlyWhirly · 4 Jul 2006 at 00:09

tolien said:
Link (that'll probably break soon).

Zen use CBC

Thanks Tolien.

I had no idea that BT charged so much for bandwidth :eek:

I assume the prices are annual?

When you see these kinds of figures, it's no wonder why ISP's have to introduce caps or traffic shaping!

Personally I prefer Zen's way which is caps but no traffic shaping, I have read loads of bad comments about Tiscali's traffic shaping and I personally couldn't enjoy the internet with that type of restriction in place.

tolien said:
Zen are betting that you aren't maxing out 24/7, as they are with their Home offerings. If enough users signed up for Zen's Office8000, and maxed it out 24 hours a day, they'd have to cap/traffic shape/FUP.

I expect AOL would also take similar action if the same thing happened to them as well.

CurlyWhirly · 4 Jul 2006 at 00:10

Topgun said:
It seems to have worked because I'm moving to bulldog!

That's all very well if your exchange has LLU or cable but mine doesn't just BT Wholesale for my broadband

tolien · 4 Jul 2006 at 01:15

CurlyWhirly said:
I had no idea that BT charged so much for bandwidth

I've posted them here a few times before, and they're banded about on AG often enough (especially by the handful of decent posters).

CurlyWhirly said:
I assume the prices are annual?

First lot of prices are the install fees, the second are rental per annum, yes.

I expect AOL would also take similar action if the same thing happened to them as well.

Quite, though AOL have an LLU operation running.

The way I understand it; BT was forced to charge these outrageous prices by ofcom to make llu offerings more attractive, increase unbundling and there by improving consumer choice.

<ConspiracyTheorist> Really it was to push cable, and keep the Ofcom top brass' pension schemes healthy

</ConspiracyTheorist>

To some extent it does favour LLU's dodgy business model (Bulldog at one point were spending 4 figures a customer, for example).
Unfortunately they didn't chuck in a proviso that required the LLUers to have any kind of build schedule, or minimum coverage, so the folks outside big towns and cities wind up getting shafted - no cheap LLU, probably no cable, and expensive IPStream, while big(ish) towns and cities get umpteen LLUers.
DataStream factors into the equation too, but it's fallen out of favour since CBC et al appeared.

Combat squirrel · 5 Jul 2006 at 12:32

GRRRRRRRRRR AGAIN!

Well Im stuck then, I think ill stay with what I have.

BUT im still looking for a providor for my gf's house, theres 4 of them in the house, fairly heavy usage NO net+phone deals (just BB only please!) Who on earth do I go with ? Tiscali *looks* the most attractive but as you all say its a no go, so who can I go with ? pipex dont seem to do net only deals now, (they have moved house and were on pipex before) so any ideas?

Freakish_05 · 5 Jul 2006 at 12:52

Voila!

I has my house hooked up to the 4mb package. Handled me and my bro gaming, my sis on MSN or whatever and my dad doing....whatever the hell he does. No problems at all. Upgraded to the 10mb package a couple of months ago "ZOMGWTF" take the mick speeds!!

Imagine if OCUK started doing broadband

would be the fastest, most reliable, uncapped connection ever at a really special price

DreXeL · 5 Jul 2006 at 14:40

Telewest is your only option. It fits all your criteria. However if you are not in a Telewest are this doesn't really help you....

GRRRRRRRRRr why are there no good ISP providors?

Man of Honour