GT86/GR86

Caporegime
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That’s not what the car is meant to be. It’s meant to be a NA driver focused car. I’m glad it’s na. Everything is turbo these days. People who have driven this compare it to modern day s2000 which can only be a good thing.

They surely could have had both. An NA for those who can't afford it and a turbo for those who want performance.

Modern day is different. Even the civic type r is turbo and if there was a modern s2000 I'm sure it would be more powerful than the 86gt.

Oh yes the s2000 was 20% more powerful and came out 20 years ago. And it had the vtec 8000rpm+ factor that the 86gt completely lacks.

If the engine is the soul of the car, the 86gt is pretty much soulless.
 
Associate
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Just an update for anyone interested as someone asked about the upcoming GR86 as someone asked about it in the GR Yaris thread. I've been keeping an ear out for news about the car as my interest is growing. It turns out that the car will only be sold here for two years due to upcoming EU safety regs:



https://mag.toyota.co.uk/why-is-the-toyota-gr86-only-on-sale-for-two-years/

I've also heard a rumours that there's only 400 allocated per year for the UK:



RRG Macclesfield Toyota via a post on the drivers club forum from someone who speaks to them:
https://www.gt86.org.uk/forums/forums/topic/8600-in-comes-the-gr86/?do=findComment&comment=124690

Thanks - I contacted my local Toyota dealer last week and put a £500 deposit down.
Will you be going for the new one or sticking with the GT?
 
Associate
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They surely could have had both. An NA for those who can't afford it and a turbo for those who want performance.

Modern day is different. Even the civic type r is turbo and if there was a modern s2000 I'm sure it would be more powerful than the 86gt.

Oh yes the s2000 was 20% more powerful and came out 20 years ago. And it had the vtec 8000rpm+ factor that the 86gt completely lacks.

If the engine is the soul of the car, the 86gt is pretty much soulless.

Adding a turbo to the flat four won't add any soul, drive a modern 718 Cayman, that's a flat four turbo, the engine is yawn inducing, Turbos are not what makes a car good, particularly if you like good throttle control and response.

In this car it would add a lot of weight and complexity pushing the price up, loosing what it is good at.

Toyota already sell that if you want it in the Supra.
 
Caporegime
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Adding a turbo to the flat four won't add any soul, drive a modern 718 Cayman, that's a flat four turbo, the engine is yawn inducing, Turbos are not what makes a car good, particularly if you like good throttle control and response.

In this car it would add a lot of weight and complexity pushing the price up, loosing what it is good at.

Toyota already sell that if you want it in the Supra.

The sensation of speed can give a car soul.

The boxer in the gt86 has no real outstanding qualities. It neither revs, no sounds good, nor is it powerful.

If the Yaris GR has a boring old na engine doing 200bhp do you think it would have had the same reception?

Why are the turbo variants of virtually ever 90s car worth so much more than the na versions

Reasons.

Edit I'm not saying remove a base level NA I'm just saying add the most requested model too, the turbo.
 
Soldato
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The sensation of speed can give a car soul.

Agreed, but that doesn't necessarily mean having a turbo.

The boxer in the gt86 has no real outstanding qualities. It neither revs, no sounds good, nor is it powerful.

If the Yaris GR has a boring old engine do you think it would habe had the same reception?

Just checking...you're aware we're not talking about the existing GT86, but the new GR86, yes? A car with an improved engine which, by nearly all accounts I have seen, fixes a lot of the deficiencies of it's predecessor including some of those you mention?

Edit I'm not saying remove a base level NA I'm just saying add the most requested model too, the turbo.

I imagine it wouldn't be economically viable to have both an NA and turbo version of the same car. It would be easy to offer a turbo, but then the costs of the platform as a whole will go up. And if they do that, it will end up encroaching on the market of the car they already offer, and the one it sounds like you actually want - the 2.0 litre Supra. Granted the Supra has no manual gearbox, but even that is rumoured for 2023.

Bit surprised why you have such a downer on it, it seems Toyota have covered the market quite well for drivers, which can only be a good thing, surely?
- GR86 for a light, fun, manual rear drive coupé.
- GR Supra 2.0 for the same but more poke and a turbo.
- GR Supra 3.0 for something much more powerful.
- GR Yaris if you want an utterly capable Rally Car for the Road (TM)
- GR Corolla for a modern hot hatch.

There's plenty there to choose from if you're after turbocharged power, so I'm glad that they've bothered to simply take the existing car and fix it's biggest flaws without changing the formula to much.

EDIT: added your quote in to make more sense to something I'd said.
 
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Caporegime
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Agreed, but that doesn't necessarily mean having a turbo.



Just checking...you're aware we're not talking about the existing GT86, but the new GR86, yes? A car with an improved engine which, by nearly all accounts I have seen, fixes a lot of the deficiencies of it's predecessor including some of those you mention?



I imagine it wouldn't be economically viable to have both an NA and turbo version of the same car. It would be easy to offer a turbo, but then the costs of the platform as a whole will go up. And if they do that, it will end up encroaching on the market of the car they already offer, and the one it sounds like you actually want - the 2.0 litre Supra. Granted the Supra has no manual gearbox, but even that is rumoured for 2023.

Bit surprised why you have such a downer on it, it seems .

EDIT: added your quote in to make more sense to something I'd said.

The new gr is just more of the sane. A basically untunable 220bhp car with all the same downsides as the old version.

Toyota used to offer turbo and NA of all their cars, MR2, Celica, Supra, even the glanza and Yaris in Jpn.

Then they fell off a cliff with the mk3 mr2 and only na product range for the next decade.

A turbo gt/gr86 makes more sense than an NA gt86 and a turbo yaris or corolla (I know built for rally but..)

If a turbo gt86 isn't the single most requested option in the performance range of Toyota in the past decade then I'll eat my hat.
 
Soldato
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The new gr is just more of the sane. A basically untunable 220bhp car with all the same downsides as the old version.

Even the most rudimentary glance at reviews of the new car would tell you that this is not true.

Toyota used to offer turbo and NA of all their cars, MR2, Celica, Supra, even the glanza and Yaris in Jpn.
Then they fell off a cliff with the mk3 mr2 and only na product range for the next decade.

What Toyota used to do, years ago, in a different market, is irrelevant to how they decide to market a car today, when they already have other cars in their model line up to consider.
You might not like that, but just saying so wont change the fact.

A turbo gt/gr86 makes more sense than an NA gt86 and a turbo yaris or corolla (I know built for rally but..)
If a turbo gt86 isn't the single most requested option in the performance range of Toyota in the past decade then I'll eat my hat.

Well it's very easy to make such a bold claim about something we'll never be able to prove either way. In my experience though, it wasn't that people specifically wanted a turbo, it's that they wanted more power, and more specifically, just more accessible torque. It just so happens that adding a turbo is probably the easiest way of achieving that. Now Toyota have managed it instead by increasing the displacement, and the reception to that has so far been largely very positive.
 
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Soldato
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Winchester
Just an update for anyone interested as someone asked about the upcoming GR86 in the GR Yaris thread. I've been keeping an ear out for news about the car as my interest is growing. It turns out that the car will only be sold here for two years due to upcoming EU safety regs:



https://mag.toyota.co.uk/why-is-the-toyota-gr86-only-on-sale-for-two-years/

I've also heard a rumours that there's only 400 allocated per year for the UK:



RRG Macclesfield Toyota via a post on the drivers club forum from someone who speaks to them:
https://www.gt86.org.uk/forums/forums/topic/8600-in-comes-the-gr86/?do=findComment&comment=124690

That's going to be a very rare machine then!

How many Yaris GR are on the road these days?
 
Associate
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The sensation of speed can give a car soul.

The boxer in the gt86 has no real outstanding qualities. It neither revs, no sounds good, nor is it powerful.

If the Yaris GR has a boring old na engine doing 200bhp do you think it would have had the same reception?

Why are the turbo variants of virtually ever 90s car worth so much more than the na versions

Reasons.

Edit I'm not saying remove a base level NA I'm just saying add the most requested model too, the turbo.

The Yaris already had a boosted 1.8 supercharged GRMN variant in the past and that engine has a lot more character than the boosted 3 pot from the GR Yaris, it was also a proper special edition, it did not sell, the engine of the GRY is a cracking unit for what it can do but it is not what makes that special, you want more aural excitement from it, it needs the fake noise, The reception the GRY gets is due to what the whole package represents and what it was developed for.

The GR86 is interesting they have upped the power and torque, [email protected] 7k with a 7.5k redline, how many boggo turbos do 7.5k, they have barely added to weight to the GR86 package, kept the gears short, sure it's not the lightest thing but should have decent balance.

Small NA can certainly feel fast and on track actually be fast and reliable, anyone that wants boost can do it in the aftermarket, I'm very interested in GR86, not many options for lightweight na, rwd, manual anymore it's my preference despite knowing a turbo charged car is probably an easier thing to live with and faster in most scenarios, it all comes down to preferences, even for my competition car I went the NA tuning route despite knowing I could slap a turbo on for half the price, it was not what I was after, my 5 has [email protected]>8k on ITBs, it's fast but you can't be a lazy driver like you can with a turbo, you have to work for it and that's where the reward comes in.

Nearly ever turbo charged car is bested by an electric shopping trolly these days for that sensation of speed but they are mostly terribly dull to drive.

I'm not anti turbo I have mostly driven turbos and own two, my NA cars are the ones I look back fondly on more so than the turbos though prefer with a few more cylinders if I am honest but lightweight 6cylinder rwd manuals are non existent.
 
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Caporegime
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Me if I could buy a 2.0 turbo gt86 I would swap my bmw for one tomorrow.

I've looked at some aftermarket turbo conversions but insurance is crazy on them for me. Over 1k per year, whereas I can insure an evo 7 for example for £412 quid or a 3000gt (classic policy ) £250 quid.
 
Associate
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Must be an age thing or wrong insurance as despite all mods I haven't got a policy >£200, my most expensive car is the one the missus drives that is completely standard, it's like they know a woman in an SUV is a danger :D

I use reis with my race license and basically I can have any modification I like and do it any time I like and I just have to email details, no price change, as my competition car was road going they even allowed commuting. :D
 
Caporegime
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block 16, cell 12
Must be an age thing or wrong insurance as despite all mods I haven't got a policy >£200, my most expensive car is the one the missus drives that is completely standard, it's like they know a woman in an SUV is a danger :D

I use reis with my race license and basically I can have any modification I like and do it any time I like and I just have to email details, no price change, as my competition car was road going they even allowed commuting. :D


Well that's lights out for the gt86 turbo

Thank you for your application.

We are unable to provide a quotation on your requested vehicle due to your Postcode being an uninsurable location for Greenlight.

This can be for a number of reasons from the amount of claims that have been made in your area, high crime rate, increased labour cost or bodily injury claim cost & frequency being high.

Sorry that we are unable to compete.

So yeah. I can't even get insured with greenlight on a turbo modded gt86.

If it was a production model it would be under £500
 
Soldato
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West sussex
sounds like a you problem ;)

I do like NA cars with right gear box and ratios a lot. Seeing how limited it might be in UK I bet it'll hold its value the yaris does.

anyone put a deposit down? I'd love to have that next to my s2000 :D
 
Caporegime
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block 16, cell 12
sounds like a you problem ;)

I do like NA cars with right gear box and ratios a lot. Seeing how limited it might be in UK I bet it'll hold its value the yaris does.

anyone put a deposit down? I'd love to have that next to my s2000 :D

It's my problem that insurance companies in general don't like to cover heavily modified cars or that in a couple of years the goverment will ban heavily modified cars etc.

The whole point is if it was offered as a standard model it wouldn't be an issue.

If I can get insured on an evo 7 import for under 500 quid that should tell you something.
 
Soldato
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West sussex
It's my problem that insurance companies in general don't like to cover heavily modified cars or that in a couple of years the goverment will ban heavily modified cars etc.

The whole point is if it was offered as a standard model it wouldn't be an issue.

If I can get insured on an evo 7 import for under 500 quid that should tell you something.
with heavily modified cars you need to call around and find one that finds your profile OK.

Greenlight is the hardest to get insurance with, they're very picky but quite cheap and really good when they do like your profile.

I've been with aplan, flux etc and all have been very cheap.

crown for e.g. was £320 a year with mods and being extremely rare and impossible to replace in uk I think that's a good value.
S2000 is modified too and is with A-plan and no issues with any mods including possible super-charging in the future.
 
Caporegime
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block 16, cell 12
with heavily modified cars you need to call around and find one that finds your profile OK.

Greenlight is the hardest to get insurance with, they're very picky but quite cheap and really good when they do like your profile.

I've been with aplan, flux etc and all have been very cheap.

crown for e.g. was £320 a year with mods and being extremely rare and impossible to replace in uk I think that's a good value.
S2000 is modified too and is with A-plan and no issues with any mods including possible super-charging in the future.

I have an oldham postcode.

I can insure modified cars, but not na to turbo modified cars.
 
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