Hand sanitizers... Pointless or Not?
- Thread starter Pulsedriver
- Start date
Associate
- Joined
- 30 Nov 2003
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- 2,211
I'm sure people are missing the point by saying that 99.9% kill is pointless.
100% of ALL bacteria that has ever existed is not going to be present on your hands/worktop/floor/wherever. Chances are that the handwash/bleach will kill all bacteria when you use it.
If 100% of all bacteria was present everywhere, we would have died out a long time ago.
100% of ALL bacteria that has ever existed is not going to be present on your hands/worktop/floor/wherever. Chances are that the handwash/bleach will kill all bacteria when you use it.
If 100% of all bacteria was present everywhere, we would have died out a long time ago.
Exactly, it's saying it's going to kill 99.9% of known bacteria, not 99.9% of what's on your hand.
Soldato
They are pointless.
A few germs are good for us as they keep the immune system working.
A few germs are good for us as they keep the immune system working.
So you'd never wash your hands?
Soldato
No I wash my hands before and after touching food and after I have been to the toilet. Sometimes after I have driven a long way as well.
There is no need, and has not been for many years to do more than that.
Unless you are in one of our wonderful hospitals.
I think people nowadays are far too careful for their own good. I approve of hygiene around food, and I would wash my hands before eating or cooking, and after handling meat, obviously, but seeing as I don't go around sucking my fingers, I generally don't see the cleanliness of my hands as a particular issue.
I grew up on a farm and played around in the mud (oh my goodness!). I use public transport and when I do, I don't wash my hands (oh my goodness!). I can shake hands with someone without worrying if I need to clean myself (oh my goodness!). Basically, I can live how I want without worrying unduly about the environment (oh my goodness!).
I grew up on a farm and played around in the mud (oh my goodness!). I use public transport and when I do, I don't wash my hands (oh my goodness!). I can shake hands with someone without worrying if I need to clean myself (oh my goodness!). Basically, I can live how I want without worrying unduly about the environment (oh my goodness!).
No I wash my hands before and after touching food and after I have been to the toilet. Sometimes after I have driven a long way as well.
There is no need, and has not been for many years to do more than that.
Unless you are in one of our wonderful hospitals.
If I think of all the hands I may shake in a day it surprises me.
Germs love hands. They're warm, often moist and are a lovely place for them. After shaking hands I always wash them ASAP or use sanitizer (remember, people sneeze into their hands, they may not wash their hands after they have used the toilet, they lick their fingers, etc).
Then you have places like door handles and poles on the tube (not the cheap labour beetroot loving type, the ones you hold). They're not a great place for germs but if you touch right after someone then it's just like shaking hands.
Then there's a lot of IT people doing the same above by touching keyboards, mice and other peripherals that people have touched.
Washing before and after food is good, it reduces the chance of getting sick BUT shaking someones hand and then rubbing your eyes of touching your mouth is just as good.
I used to work for a biotech company that had nothing to do with germs but were big on the whole sanitation thing before it became really mainstream. I noticed without a doubt that I became sick less often when washing hands regularly and using sanitizers. Defo a good thing.
Associate
I take them to festivals. I would probably use it on a long car journey as well if I had something sticky* on my hands.
* No, not man juice.
* No, not man juice.
Although I don't carry any hand sanatizer, I've thought about it, because living in London and traveling on the Tube, it's one of the easiest places to pickup a bug or infection. You've not only got domestic people with illnesses, but you've got people coming from all over the world with who knows what.
While like I said I don't carry sanitizer, I'm always conscious of touching my face or other areas where you can pickup a bug through after having used an escalator rail, handrail inside a tube etc....
While like I said I don't carry sanitizer, I'm always conscious of touching my face or other areas where you can pickup a bug through after having used an escalator rail, handrail inside a tube etc....
Took some to Peru with me when I was trekking. As there is little in the way of washing water it makes sense.
Being 5000m up with the squits does not sound like fun!
On a similar note, the amount of people who do not wash their hands after toileting is disgusing. Little pigs.
Being 5000m up with the squits does not sound like fun!
On a similar note, the amount of people who do not wash their hands after toileting is disgusing. Little pigs.
Soldato
It's volume - not species.
I'll tell you what they'll do, they'll get x and y plates, x plates will have product treatment, y won't. They'll then compare counts on the two plates. As Bruce Lee said, boards don't hit back -- plates don't fully replicate biological environments. That aside... you'll load a plate with 100 million or so CFU, then the treated plate you'd want to see 10-100,000 CFU (so that's your 99.9-99.99% reduction). The surviving critters aren't Rambo-bugs, they just just out-survived the efficacy of the disinfectant.
We did this at uni, and you find the rates approaching 50% (so not 99.9%) for a moderate alcohol content. However, it's science so easy to fudge, you just repeat the experiment until 99.9% has been killed. It would be better to say "kills 99.9% occasionally" - but heck, that wouldn't sell. But this is rendered moot for healthy people as we have an immune system. Secondly, you'd never see 100 million CFU per plate-sized area in most household enviroments. So the 99.9% could mean that 1 bacterium survives - Schwarzenegger difficile if you will. This 1 will become 2, 4, 8... if cleaning isn't maintained.
Be clean, but not OCD clean.
With work I often visit the local hospital and I make a point of using the gel when walking around the hospital. But as someone already mentioned it does not work with cdiff. Also if you buy gel more often than not the insturctions recommend that you wash and dry your hands before using the gel! Also hand washing with soap tops gel. They need it in hospitals as hand washing amongst nurses is dreadful, I cant remeber which hospital it was or where i read it but they provided the gel to every nurse and it reduced infections rates.
working in a microbiology lab at the moment and i use 70% ethanol to clean my hands - those gels that use a similar amount of ethanol are pretty effective. depending on the bacteria they can be >99.999999% effective. forget soap and water - that hardly kills anything, bacteria are very resistant to surfactants (except cationic ones, which won't be in your soap anyway).
it depends if you come in contact with a lot of bacteria - the only 2 instances where you would want to sterilise your hands is if you are working with dead flesh or faeces. all the other bacteria around are pretty harmless.
it depends if you come in contact with a lot of bacteria - the only 2 instances where you would want to sterilise your hands is if you are working with dead flesh or faeces. all the other bacteria around are pretty harmless.
c. deficille is certainly harder to kill with ethanol but only the spores. 70% ethanol (and it has to be between 60-80% - 100% is not as good) will kill all bacteria, simply by dissolving the membrane. but of course thats not something you can buy, because all those tramps would just drink it!!
Soldato
I went to a wedding reception on Saturday to a hotel and their was around 60-80 people family's + kids etc. In the gents toilet ofc the norm but 1 - just 1 towel to wipe your hands on god knows how much bacteria was on that!
not that it botherd me in the slighest anyway
not that it botherd me in the slighest anyway
Soldato
And that's why Jesus invented 151% proof rum.