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Hanging shelves, etc on skimmed wall over plaster board?

Discussion in 'Home and Garden' started by 413x, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 19,269

    Location: Cardiff

    Finished painting the newly skimmed wall and now need to put some things up.

    I used self drive screw in plugs on the bare plasterboard walls but wasn't sure what to do on the skimmed wall.

    Will I crack the plaster if I just screw these self drive plugs directly into the skimmed wall?
    Or do I need to drill just through the skimmed but first?
     
  2. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Is the plasterboard stuck to block work or fixed to stud work? If it's the former I'd use proper raw plugs into the block work and if it's the latter I'd either screw into wooden stud work or use metal anchor fixings into metal stud work.
     
  3. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 5,829

    Those screw in fixings are pretty horrible, I'd avoid at all cost for putting up anything. They make a huge hole, can't hold enough weight for anything heavy and they are overkill for anything lite. If you must use them make sure you use the metal ones for a skimmed wall.

    My go to for fixings attaching directly to plasterboard are:
    • lite to medium weight use a good quality multi surface plug like Fisher Duo Power, you can use them in plasterboard, block or brick. One plug to rule them all and no need for anything else. I have put up all sorts with these from mirrors to decorative shelving (e.g. not for heavy items like books).
    • heavier items use metal wall anchors, make sure you set them correctly with the proper tool. These should hold up all but the heaviest of items like a kitchen cabinet.

    If you can screw into a stud then do so but the chances are the studs are not where you need them.

    If you have a block wall behind you have the option to go directly into the wall. For something that is mid-heavy you can do the 'two plug method' which is one plug in the wall and the other in the plasterboard directly in front of it. The plug in the wall holds the weight and the plug in the plasterboard supports it so you don't bow or crack the board when it all gets tightened up. You drill one long hole all the way through the board and block behind, tap the first plug through using a partly threaded screw and then put the second plug into the plasterboard. You then attach the piece to the wall using a long screw through both plugs.

    Like this:
    https://youtu.be/87hOAnt9d5s?t=421

    If its really heavy like a kitchen cabinet, the proper fixing for the job is Core Fix. It's essentially the same concept but its one purpose made long plug, a metal feral which you insert after you have put in the plug in and you use the supplied long screw go through into the block behind. These are much stronger than the above method.
     
  4. Kamakazie!

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 12, 2003

    Posts: 1,813

    I've previously been recommended:
    - Snaptoggle (just plasterboard) < Check out some tests but max weight is good for most jobs
    - Rigifix (plasterboard into solid wall) < These are probably similar to the Core Fix recommended above
     
  5. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 3,762

    Location: Inverkip

    I've used the screw in fixings before and they just didn't do what they claimed.

    Screwing into a batten is obviously the best solution, but getting screw holes to line up on whatever centres have been used would be a small miracle in itself.

    Gripit fixings work well although they require a large hole to be drilled into the plasterboard which will not always be hidden by what you have fixed to the wall. I've fitted several large radiators using them and there hasn't been any movement at all, just use the correct fixing for the weight.
     
  6. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 19,269

    Location: Cardiff

    Definitely stud.
    And the studs are not in useful places.

    Ill check these options out.
    Appreciate the help
     
  7. dl8860

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 25, 2010

    Posts: 3,060

    Location: Surrey

    Just echoing a terrible experience with these
    https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Self-Drill-Nylon-Fixers---40mm-Pack-of-10/p/516068

    Tried to put them into plasterboard which had skim over it, the thin layer of plaster was enough to wreck the fixings as they went in in most places, so unless I wanted to somehow remove the skim before screwing them in (which totally defeats the object of them) then they were never going to work.

    For relatively lightweight shelves
    https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fischer-Plasterboard-Plug---6-x-35mm-Pack-of-25/p/141334

    More heavy duty
    https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fischer-Cavity-Fixing-Anchor-5-x-37mm-Pack-of-4/p/141039
     
  8. SimonR

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 15, 2008

    Posts: 689

    Location: Near to Overclockers

    I guess it all depends on what weight you are placing on the shelves. Self drive plugs are useless for even light shelves. I would as a minimum look to use brolly anchors or toggle anchors as they at least spread the load over a slightly larger area. I would try and find at least one stud and work your other bracket spacing around one shelf fixture screwed directly into the stud.
     
  9. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 19,269

    Location: Cardiff

    Going to bail on self drive.
    Had a couple that didn't work and it's bloody mess!

    Going to get some of those fischer things for most of the work.
    Do I need anything else apart from a drill for these? Looks like the screw pulls out the arms?

    Might try those snap toggles for some of the more important stuff. Have a rear surround speaker to mount. It's not ridiculous heavy like a TV. But it isn't light.
     
  10. checjb

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,362

    Location: Royston, Herts

    I was going to put my 2p worth in but b0rn2sk8 has covered everything. I've thrown out all my wall plugs except boxes of 6m and 8mm Fischer Duopower and use them exclusively for light/mid weight stuff. Heavy stuff always get wall anchors but if you're using them get a setting tool. It takes seconds to use one, avoids without the mess you tend to make if you try to screw them into place and works first time, every time (IME).
     
  11. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 19,269

    Location: Cardiff

    Update.

    Got my drill, drill bits, and a few anchors. (you can tell this is my first house)

    I now believe this is dot and dab as there is no room for these wall anchors to fit.

    So now I need to figure out what I need to do now.
    Is this a good thing as it means there's a solid wall just behind the drywall?
     
  12. dark-knight

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 28, 2015

    Posts: 202

  13. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 5,829

    If it's dot dab just use two plugs back to back (one in the board and one in the block behind) as I explained in a post above and the linked video. No special fixing required, job jobbed.
     
  14. Simon42

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 11, 2006

    Posts: 712

  15. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 19,269

    Location: Cardiff

    Thanks all for your input.

    Luckily if I do decide to mount the TV on the wall this is against the external wall and a dot and dab.

    Most of the other work should be medium weight (shelves with a couple of kilos of weight) so again that feels like plugs I have (duos) should be good.

    The house I have has external walls in every room (it's a small detached houses) so that makes things a little easier.

    Really appreciate all input. This forum is great for me DIY
     
  16. theone8181

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 27, 2013

    Posts: 4,163

    I've not heard of the 2 plug method before. I have used the screen fittings quite successfully, however I always drill a decent pilot hole as if it bottoms out on brick/ breeze the while thing shears (and that's the metal ones but the nylon ones). I've used some others that are really thin and you just hammer them in, and a screw splays (not sure if thats a proper word but we use it alot:D) they're pretty good for shelves and I think I've got 4 holding up each of my bookshelf speakers.