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Have improvements in vetinary medicine priced poor people out of pet ownership?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Orionaut, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 11,239

    Location: Gloucestershire

    No chance our rabbits are getting expensive vet treatments. It's only about £50 for a replacement one anyway.
     
  2. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,799

    Location: Hampshire

    Thats the starting price, from experience it goes up about £5 per month at renewal as the pet ages. Hope you have lifetime cover.
     
  3. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,362

    Do you have any evidence to support this idea?
     
  4. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,523

    Dont know the exact name of the offense but i am pretty sure there is an offense along the lines of "Failing to provide appropriate veterinary care"

    Now, for sure, many/most cases where people have been prosecuted under this will be ones of simple neglect.

    But I dont know how aggressively this sort of law might be used, but the potential, at least, does seem to me to be there for people to face prosecution because a procedure has been recommended but the owner is unwilling/unable to pay for it?

    After all, what happens in the US if poor people refuse to stump up for medical treatment for a sick child?
     
  5. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,362

    No idea; why? what does this have to do with pet ownership in the UK?
     
  6. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,523


    Nothing, other than it is an example of people having a legal responsibility of care in an environment where the provision of that care is private and relativity expensive.
     
  7. Donnie Fisher

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 22, 2018

    Posts: 266

    Location: Vegas baby !

    In England, i think this falls under Section 9, Animal Welfare Act, where:



    Good practice is outlined in various codes of practice that can be found on the gov websites. ( there is one for cats, dogs, etc ) They seem to expand on each of the 5 points listed above.

    From that code:

    So to get back to the point of:

    I don't really think thats true.

    I'd say that if the animal was taken to the vet, and a very expensive course of treatment was advised that you couldn't afford and so you were at a point that you couldn't meet the 5 points, but a practical alternative was to put it down in an appropriate manner by the vet, then that would be likely be OK as you've tried to follow the code in the first place by going to the vet.

    To me its more its more reasonable to take a course of action to put down an animal to prevent suffering because of not affording treatment.

    Conversely (and in line with the OP's point of discussion), its therefore unreasonable to put an owner at risk of financial harm to approve a course of treament for an animal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  8. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,783

    Location: Co Durham

    I am sure medical advances aand new medicinces will have increased the cost of insurance but equally vets cost a lot more now. My gf qualified as a vet over 30 years ago and the norm back then was to work Monday to Friday 8ish to 6pm and then a few nights on call which could result in been up all night and then working next day plus a 1 in 3 weekend on call rota. Pay was appalling and she once worked out she was paid less than minimum wage if you counted all her on call time as working. The big money came once you worked you way up to partner but you were still working just as hard then though.

    She is still involved with vet practices now. A huge number have all been bought out by national chains and the trend is continuing where the vet industry says there wont be very many independent vets left in 10 years time. Big chains are all listed on the stock market and are about making a return for the shareholders.

    The big change she has noticed is the pay and working hours for the current generation of vets. They see it as a job and want and expect a life outside of work. All the local vets only work days, 4 days a week and all night and weekend cover is done by an external service who cover all the vet practices in the area. They are all paid between £50k and £70k for a 37 hour week. When she left practice 10 years ago she got £35k for a 60 hour week on average. Her worst week was 96 hours worked.

    So with the reduced hours and increased pay, vets time cost 4 times more than it did 10 years ago. That all has to go on the bills.

    Last big change was been able to get a prescription and then buy your medicine from online warehouses much cheaper than the vets. The vet practices used to use the markup they made on the drugs to offset for not charging the vets time out at a proper rate. For example, my other half would go out to a callout at the weekend or night and perhaps have 30 minutes travelling there and back and say an hour on site and the charge might only be £50 plus the drugs. A lot of advice was giving free on the phone etc.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  9. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 11,205

    Location: Here and There...

    Welcome to the world of insurance backed medical care! Yes treatment is amazing but oh my dose it cost and every time you go to the vet expect them to prescribe something they make money from a dull old insurance company so why wouldn’t they?

    Rewind 30 years nobody had insurance, pets visited the vet about three times in there life and significant injury often ended with them being put to sleep. Was a similar time, for my money the poster who spent a car on a dog is bonkers!
     
  10. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 12, 2004

    Posts: 27,623

    Cost me only £400 to insure my horse for veterinary fees, compared to the cost of pet ownership the cost is nothing.
     
  11. BusError

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 8, 2008

    Posts: 1,375

    Location: Berks+Powys

    It's now expensive because basically its' the american health system in a model size. *everyone* needs private insurance, and the practice just make up prices as they go along, and the owners don't care that much because the insurance will pay.

    Of course the insurance will *always* negotiate a price all the way down, the pricetag you SEE is not the one they pay, it's really a scam that benefits everyone but the owners.
     
  12. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,783

    Location: Co Durham

    Agreed. This is exactly the system many Tories and Farage want for the NHS in this country.
     
  13. Em3bbs

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 26, 2011

    Posts: 4,395

    Location: City of London

    When will people realise it's not a binary question of "NHS or US Style system" and nothing else proven to have worked well elsewhere will be allowed.
     
  14. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,095

    Location: Leeds

    Why have a pet if you don't actually give a **** about it?
     
  15. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 11,239

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Why own anything?

    I wouldn't spend £500 to fix my microwave when I can get a new one for £50 either.

    It's not like rabbits are companion animals anyway. Pretty disposable.
     
  16. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 29,003

    Location: Welling, London

    Thats an appalling attitude.

    You really shouldn’t own animals if you consider them disposable. So if your rabbit needed treatment that came to around £400, but would bring it right back to health and happy, would you just end it’s life because you’d rather spend the £400 on something else?
     
  17. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 11,239

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Absolutely. No chance I'm spending that sort of cash on a rabbit.
     
  18. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 29,003

    Location: Welling, London

    But you’d spend it on a telly, a games console or a computer component wouldn’t you.

    Life obviously has no value for you. Don’t ever try to lecture me on social justice issues ever again. You don’t have a clue.
     
  19. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 11,239

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Nah, I'm not really into 'stuff'. I only replaced our living room CRT TV 18 months ago. And my PC was built 7 years ago.

    As a meat eater, an occasional rabbit eater in fact, I don't see how I could get all precious about 'animal life' in the respect of expensive veterinary treatment, and reconcile that to carry on enjoying my bacon sandwich.

    Let's not kid ourselves: opting to keep a pet is nothing to do with 'valuing life' - it's inherently treating animals as chattels, just another consumer good bought for your pleasure. I'd actually not have any pets if it were down to me - I was outvoted by wife and kids. But that said, the rabbits are treated well, live freely in a 7x7ft, 3-tiered shed (with day visits to a outdoor run on the lawn), and won't suffer lengthy illness, nor traumatic and painful correctional procedures.

    Anyway, I'm not saying I'll flush your pet down the toilet as soon as it gets ill, i'm talking about my own. I dunno why you're taking it so personally. It's a bit weird, really.
     
  20. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,799

    Location: Hampshire

    Because you are talking about your pets as if they are disposable and replaceable objects?