Soldato
Hot does not mean top of the range.
Have warm hatches been replaced by diesels
- Thread starter Relentless81
- Start date
Obviously it was
I could never class a diesel as fun. If you were to look at the power through the rev range, in a diesel it goes something like
1000 rpm = 10% power output
2000 rpm = 80% power output
It's the way diesels splurge out all their power in one shot that does my nut in. You pull away at a roundabout casually with no power......no power.......POWAAA!! Can't stand it
8 seconds 0-60 for a hot hatch isn't really "laughable" surely
Perhaps not for a hot hatch a generation or two before it, but considering that the first Fiesta ST rolled out of the factory in 05 and was about 1.6seconds adrift from a Civic Type R (which I'm sure we can all agree is a bona fide Hot hatch) of a similar vintage, its pretty laughable.
I'm not even going to bother to reply to this stupidity.
My point with the 306 d turbo is like it or not its pretty much responsible for this conversation we are having now, it was the first common diesel with a bit of go and very good handling. After that, other cars like the fabia came out which were a fair bit quicker.
A quote from Wikipedia makes this point quite well:
"the 306 D-turbo was the first to be commercially successful and sell in significant numbers, and this success effectively created the market for such performance oriented diesel cars. It was a popular seller in all its various phases throughout the life of the car"
At the time, for a diesel it had quite a following, in gear they are a fair bit quicker than their figures say. But their effect long term was to open peoples eyes to the saleabilty of a warm diesel hatch
A quote from Wikipedia makes this point quite well:
"the 306 D-turbo was the first to be commercially successful and sell in significant numbers, and this success effectively created the market for such performance oriented diesel cars. It was a popular seller in all its various phases throughout the life of the car"
At the time, for a diesel it had quite a following, in gear they are a fair bit quicker than their figures say. But their effect long term was to open peoples eyes to the saleabilty of a warm diesel hatch
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Soldato
Yet the FocusRS will struggle to compete around a classic B road against a Clio200...?
Soldato
Oh no. Not this again.
I like my car just the way it is. You lot can apply whatever label you like to it, makes no odds to me.
I like my car just the way it is. You lot can apply whatever label you like to it, makes no odds to me.
Based on what? Not sure what your point is.
I don't get this? Why is it suprising? The clio is a lot lighter and handles very well indeed? 200hp is a lot too.
An m3 would have a hard time tbh.
Soldato
FocusRS is a hot hatch yet has a hard time against a warm hatch on a B road... does that make it a warm hatch too?
im just saying everyone seems to think what makes a Hot hatch is pub talk BHP figures but they forget about weight and size.
You're putting far too much emphasis on out and out handling, as if it and it alone can absolve all sins of the Fiesta ST (namely the lacklustre performance). Aren't Fiat Panda 100BHP supposed to handle pretty well? Do you consider them a Hot Hatchback. I thought not, but why not, because they're also a hatchback and also handle well, or is it because you don't own one?
.The Hot Hatchback segment has evolved. 25 years ago a Fiesta ST would have been a Hot Hatch without question, but then so would have the Fiat Panda. Times have changed and even at the time of launch the Fiesta ST was just too slow to mix it with some of its fully fledged Hot Hatch contemporaries.
And of course I know Hot hatches are supposed to be about more than out and out speed, but handling and a bodykit that gets nicked when you leave the car parked in public alone weren't enough to get into the hot hatch club in 05, let alone in this day and age.
Man of Honour
Ah, in gear times, an old diesel fan favourite!
TBH the Fiesta ST has perfectly adequate performance to have some real fun on the road and without getting yourself into too much trouble to boot.
Soldato
Joshy, im talking about the Clio200 here, not a FiestaST, which i agree, as standard isnt THAT great. Ford didnt want the best performing small Hatch back, they wanted the best selling. Thats why they've sold around 15k FiestaST's vs only around 9k Clio's.
Where did you see FiestaST at all in post #46?
Where did you see FiestaST at all in post #46?
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I don't like diesels BTW, I've never owned one and I probably never will.
I do however have a subjective opinion and can see they have merits , and believe me I'm not mistaking their downfalls either.
Besides my point isn't anything to do with the performance of a turbo being akin to a "warm hatch" but rather that it served as an eye opener. Which it did.
Your entire stance in this thread has been that if X can keep up with Y (which is a hot hatch) on a hypothetical B Road, X must automatically be a Hot Hatch. For most of the thread you've been using this logic to support the Fiesta ST, just because you did not mention it in ONE post doesn't mean I'm not going to question it.
Soldato
in one post i defended it, and that wasnt even my car, it was the new one thats due out soon
Soldato
Thanks, i thought i was going mad, right from the start i've been going back over what ive said wondering how i brought my Mk6 into this, when i mentioned the Mk7 to begin with. Yet people still think im banging on about my highly modified Mk6. I start talking about a Clio200 and someone STILL thinks im talking about my FiestaST!?!
My point in this power isnt everything, something some people cant grasp. Bringing diesels into this is silly, because not only do they have no power (relatively), but they also for the most part weigh a lot more too!
A nimble 150-200bhp car vs a 260-300bhp with a few extra 100kgs to carry... I know what id rather have.