Heavy fines for those that refuse vaccination in Germany

[Sankari]

so what you are saying that mercury is safe to consume? i was told at school that mercury is poisonous.
what's insane and stupid about that?

The mercury used in vaccines is not the type of mercuy you're referring to, and is harmless in the doses found in vaccines

 

[Sankari]

but to include something in a vaccine that is harmful and without openly disclosing as to what and why a certain substance is in it

* it is not harmful in the dosage found in vaccines
* the 'what' and 'why' of every substance in a vaccine is openly disclosed

 

[Sankari]

ok give me some actual facts about how vaccines cure/prevent disease?

 

[Sankari]

so you are advocating the ingredients that in these vaccines wow, i asked hikari but he skimmed over the question.

are there some actual facts/data about how vaccines have cured/prevent disease?

 

[Sankari]

lol yes indeed. a few ruffled feathers in here how we lived so long without big pharma is a miracle

Most people had utterly miserable lives, life expectancy was ~40 years maximum, child mortality was through the roof, and deaths from vaccine-preventable diseases were off the charts.

 

[Sankari]

dr fred klenner treated 60 polio patients just with sodium ascorbate in polio epidemic of 1948-9 in the states who recovered within 72 hrs no vaccine required..

Wrong, Klenner had no success at all.

 

[Haggisman]

can't say i have tbh so if not 100% safe are they 100% or anywhere near that effective because the ingredients in them are truly shocking imo

Please feel free to explain what's shocking about them and the harmful effects they have, rather than just "they don't sound very nice"

 

[pooley]

They're only shocking if you haven't got any idea about dosages, safe levels, or chemistry.
For example the reason there are traces of egg in the vaccines is because they use eggs as a medium to cultivate the virus or bacteria so they can get the amount needed to make the vaccines effective.
They don't however tend to pop down to the local Tesco and pick up eggs at random, but will likely have the sourced from specialist suppliers whose hens are kept under much more controlled conditions than normal (in the same way they're using leeches and maggots that are specially bred for some applications).

Many of the chemicals you need to live are dangerous at (often not much) higher doses than are required to support life, most medicines are potentially harmful if you take too much or for too long (including most common over the counter painkillers).
Pretty much everything you eat or drink requires chemicals that would going by your posts be "shocking" to be used in their production (or are naturally present in the raw ingredients).

if you are not concerned about chick embryo's tesco's or otherwise, monkey kidney cells, human diploid cells or fetal rhesus monkey lung cells and things of that nature being used as a medium in your vaccine's then fine that's your choice but it does not mean i am, irrelevant what dose you claim is safe.

Please feel free to explain what's shocking about them and the harmful effects they have, rather than just "they don't sound very nice"

as above if you think that's a ok for for you then great, it's my choice not to have this foreign material injected into me and i should not be punished for it.

 

[Destination]

But it's routinely added to water for health reasons, and poisonous like mercury...
Admittedly you'd probably have to eat a few tubes of toothpaste containing it in one go, or be exposed to it in cleaning or industrial products for it to be dangerous but like pretty much every one of the chemicals people have issues with in vaccines it is dangerous in higher concentrations..

It isn't, less than 10% of the UK population receive fluoridated water.
And yes a good couple of tubes of it can cause toxic effects such a vomiting stomach upset etc.

 

[Hades]

The fact that medical mistakes have been made in the past is not a valid argument against penalties for failure to vaccinate.



Unfortunately a lot of parents ignore perfectly valid advice from the medical profession. If you leave it all up to the parents, you'll end up with a lot of very sick kids.

At the heart of this issue the question is whether each of us believe the responsibility for our children, the care of our children and the decisions made for them are better done by their immediate family, or by the state.

Although the there is a case to be made for some parents not acting in their children's best interests I cannot agree that other parents poor decision should be a reason why the State takes away my rights on such matters.

I support vaccination and I advise everyone to do so. But the State do not own my children and should not have the right to take the families rights away.

Other people believe the State knows best and are happy to give over such freedoms. I am not.

Also, the fact that medical mistakes have been made in the past is very much a reason to be cautious and for parents to research and check for themselves. The government are driven by various agendas such as winning votes, being influenced by companies, etc, and to blindly put faith in their decisions without questioning is a foolhardy approach in my view.

 

[stopper]

My mother inlaw is a nurse for the NHS (30 years) and she's always on about bad measles cases that come into the theater, she also admits that half of these cases are on vaccinated children, so it's clear that they do not provide total immunity.
I also know of a ton of other cases on vaccinated people, my mate works in the NHS caring for those who have been damaged by the medical system (yes they actually have a department for it), and most of her cases are from vaccines or chemo.
Side effects of vaccines can be real bad, they are directly injected into your bloodstream, bypassing your natural defenses where your body can't fight it off.
The CDC states that "As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a serious injury or death." Take a look at some of the possible side effects on that site.
Our own government has a vaccine damage program for anyone effected.
Why would they do this if vaccines are completely safe?
The companies who make vaccines can put whatever they want in them and have no accountability as they are immune to prosecution. Which means any cases of injury or death as a result of vaccines, goes completely ignored/unreported.
Do you really want to take this risk with your children?

I am not arguing that they have no benefit, but they are definitely not 100% safe, and this is the reason my 2 youngest are vaccine free.
Medicine that doesn't provide total immunity, that can cause death and serious injury, and nothing you can do about it if it does happen...erm...no thanks!
Governments, Judges, or equal peers should never be given the ability to force this onto people. If you think otherwise, then you are not fit to be a parent.

 

[adolf hamster]

Side effects of vaccines can be real bad, they are directly injected into your bloodstream, bypassing your natural defenses where your body can't fight it off.

That's sort of the point, the idea is your body fights it off and what it learns will help against the real version of the disease. it's the equivalent of self defence lessons for your immune system.

 

[Destination]

if you are not concerned about chick embryo's tesco's or otherwise, monkey kidney cells, human diploid cells or fetal rhesus monkey lung cells and things of that nature being used as a medium in your vaccine's then fine that's your choice but it does not mean i am, irrelevant what dose you claim is safe.

as above if you think that's a ok for for you then great, it's my choice not to have this foreign material injected into me and i should not be punished for it.

Everything you are saying is basically irrelevant.
You're shouting about not wanting vaccines when you've had all your vaccines already.
You have the protection you claim not to want.
Bar travel (optional) adults in the UK are not vaccinated at all anymore.
Everything you claim not to want, you've already had.

 

[Kenai]

I am not arguing that they have no benefit, but they are definitely not 100% safe, and this is the reason my 2 youngest are vaccine free.

They may not be 100% safe but they're many orders of magnitude safer than having diseases like Smallpox and Polio running rife through a population. The more people avoiding vaccination, the more chance diseases like these will get an opportunity to return/spread.

I feel people are now free to get more hung up on the side effects, given most people with young children now will have grown up themselves in an environment that is largely free of disease. Perhaps people would be less worried about rare side effects if they had actually experienced the effects of the diseases these vaccination programmes have prevented.

 

[Nasher]

My mother inlaw is a nurse for the NHS (30 years) and she's always on about bad measles cases that come into the theater, she also admits that half of these cases are on vaccinated children, so it's clear that they do not provide total immunity.
I also know of a ton of other cases on vaccinated people, my mate works in the NHS caring for those who have been damaged by the medical system (yes they actually have a department for it), and most of her cases are from vaccines or chemo.
Side effects of vaccines can be real bad, they are directly injected into your bloodstream, bypassing your natural defenses where your body can't fight it off.
The CDC states that "As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a serious injury or death." Take a look at some of the possible side effects on that site.
Our own government has a vaccine damage program for anyone effected.
Why would they do this if vaccines are completely safe?
The companies who make vaccines can put whatever they want in them and have no accountability as they are immune to prosecution. Which means any cases of injury or death as a result of vaccines, goes completely ignored/unreported.
Do you really want to take this risk with your children?

I am not arguing that they have no benefit, but they are definitely not 100% safe, and this is the reason my 2 youngest are vaccine free.
Medicine that doesn't provide total immunity, that can cause death and serious injury, and nothing you can do about it if it does happen...erm...no thanks!
Governments, Judges, or equal peers should never be given the ability to force this onto people. If you think otherwise, then you are not fit to be a parent.

The risk is way less than 1%, but the risk of catching something (and dying from it) your not vaccinated against is way higher. Magnified by the fact many vaccinated people are carriers of some of these diseases.

If someone came up with a vaccine for cancer, I guess you would pass it up?

 

[dowie]

I am not arguing that they have no benefit, but they are definitely not 100% safe, and this is the reason my 2 youngest are vaccine free.
Medicine that doesn't provide total immunity, that can cause death and serious injury, and nothing you can do about it if it does happen...erm...no thanks!
Governments, Judges, or equal peers should never be given the ability to force this onto people. If you think otherwise, then you are not fit to be a parent.

this is just more naivety - no one is arguing that they're 100% safe but that they're better than the alternative of being unvaccinated

to think that being unvaccinated is safer is a pretty irrational position and perhaps a result of innumeracy

 

[Steedie]

I was hesitant to open this thread due to the views of hippies and conspiracy theorists, I stupidly did it anyway.

Urgh...

Edit - just to add, I'm not saying those who choose not to vaccinate are hippies, but there are those that choose not too for ridiculous reasons

 

[asim18]

The risk is way less than 1%, but the risk of catching something (and dying from it) your not vaccinated against is way higher. Magnified by the fact many vaccinated people are carriers of some of these diseases.

True for most, but not for all the vaccines/diseases.

Just to keep it very simple here, following numbers from Wikipedia article for polio and are referenced there:

"In about 0.5% of cases there is muscle weakness resulting in an inability to move."
"In those with muscle weakness about 2% to 5% of children and 15% to 30% of adults die."

So you saying the risk of dying from "something" is "far greater than 1%" is not always the case because far less than 1% die from polio for example.

The numbers actually add up with the cutter incident where 200,000 children were infected with actual live polio and only 5 died.

Just being rational with the numbers here before anyone starts crying that numbers from Wikipedia are a conspiracy theory or start throwing around anti-vax rage or whatever.

 

[Destination]

If someone came up with a vaccine for cancer, I guess you would pass it up?

They have, HPV for girls before they are sexual active cuts out one type of cervical cancer.

 

[Dolph]

can't say i have tbh so if not 100% safe are they 100% or anywhere near that effective because the ingredients in them are truly shocking imo

My mother in law contracted measles as a child, suffered scarring on her lungs that impacted her throughout her life, and led to her death last year at 64.

My childhood next door neighbour (still my parents next door neighbour) suffered polio as a child and required calipers to hold his leg together, and was in a wheelchair full time by his 40s.

Your fear of scary sounding ingredients is driven by ignorance and poor research. The consequences of these preventable diseases are much worse and much more widespread than the very low incidence of genuine vaccine related issues.