HGVs in the outside lane - Is this allowed?

[Entai]

If everyone drove 100m apart on the motorway, the traffic would be even worse. Last time cars needed 100m to stop from 70 was when they used drum brakes all round.

If anyone ever gets prosecuted for driving to close to another, usually under driving without due care and attention, the guidelines in the Highway code are used,to determine correct distance, so yes maybe they are out of date, in your opinion, but they are what is used so you should obey them, otherwise technically in the spirit of them you are breaking the law.

Have always thought it just needs a very small tweak to set all gantry cameras to measure distance between vehicles and dish out 3 points, and say £200 fine to anyone driving to close, most people would sort out correct distances pretty soon after that.

Would be an awesome revenue earner to pay for NHS and road repairs etc

 

[Semple]

Most biggest pet peeve of all time.. Is in a traffic jam at 5 to 10mph not being a cars length away at all times. Those people who leave 50metre gaps (because they can't go anywhere) are the reason the queue exists in the first place. I honk them to move and they always look so confused.. It enrages me that they're soo stupid

Assuming you don't have too many people keep swapping lanes (as that's what actually creates queues), leaving large gaps for traffic ahead to clear and then you can move forward at a reasonable pace is much more economical driving. Having to accelerate and then brake every X meters just adds so much unnecessary wear and tear on your car and drinks fuel, and the best part... you don't even get to the end point any quicker.

 

[Joe T]

If anyone ever gets prosecuted for driving to close to another, usually under driving without due care and attention, the guidelines in the Highway code are used,to determine correct distance, so yes maybe they are out of date, in your opinion, but they are what is used so you should obey them, otherwise technically in the spirit of them you are breaking the law.

Have always thought it just needs a very small tweak to set all gantry cameras to measure distance between vehicles and dish out 3 points, and say £200 fine to anyone driving to close, most people would sort out correct distances pretty soon after that.

Would be an awesome revenue earner to pay for NHS and road repairs etc

Actually you could even do it on the gap between the vehicles in time rather than distance. That way it works at all speeds, and also fits with the following distance indicator fitted to many new cars.

 

[ChroniC]

However what you appear to be missing is that the correct braking distance at 70 or 80 does in fact leave a huge gap between vehicles.

When you drive on a road with the chevron spacers, and you are following the car in front with the full clear two chevrons distance, which is in fact virtually 3 chevrons, as to have two fully clear ones, the vehicle in front will be over one, you will see two fully clear ones, and you will be pretty much over the fourth, that is the correct driving distance at 70mph, that is in fact a pretty darn huge gap, but is the correct thinking and braking distance according to the law.

Travelling at 70mph, stopping distance is 96 metres.
Chevrons are 40m apart
So if the vehicle in front is on chevron one, and you are on chevron 3, that's only 80 metres, (one clear one between you)
If you are on chevron 4 you are on 120 metres.
So if you can see 2 clear chevrons between you, you are about 100 metres. Bingo, the correct safe braking distance.

And yes I know cars have better brakes etc than when the system was first imposed, but that is not a legal excuse in a court of law.

Although failure to comply with various rules of The Highway Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, the Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Road Traffic Acts to establish liability, and establishing liability is pretty much 8 out of ten times, establishing guilt of an offence.

My original comment was about being in a queue. Hence the point. I'm gona ignore you now as you dont read or listen.

 

[ubersonic]

Have always thought it just needs a very small tweak to set all gantry cameras to measure distance between vehicles and dish out 3 points, and say £200 fine to anyone driving to close, most people would sort out correct distances pretty soon after that.

That's a terrible idea due to the outdated "official" distances being grossly exaggerated to the point of not being visible in the real world, if you drive on the motorway in an overtaking lane while leaving the official breaking distance rather than a shorter but still safe one you will be overtaken, if you're in the rightmost lane you will be undertaken.

 

[ChroniC]

Assuming you don't have too many people keep swapping lanes (as that's what actually creates queues), leaving large gaps for traffic ahead to clear and then you can move forward at a reasonable pace is much more economical driving. Having to accelerate and then brake every X meters just adds so much unnecessary wear and tear on your car and drinks fuel, and the best part... you don't even get to the end point any quicker.

Holy ******* **** this is exactly my point. Do you realise how stupid this is? Do you not know that the bigger the gap at the front you leave the longer the queue becomes at the back, right? You literally are causing the problem by driving like that.

Ever been in a queue to then get to end and find no crash... Its because of people leaving uncessary gaps and causing a knock on effect..

There is a gif to illustrate this somewhere I need to find.

 

[Pyscho_Si]

On normal road conditions most HGV's i come across tend to be absolutely fine.

During average speed check zones... most then become a law unto themselves.

They turn into a bunch of impatient ***** who want to stick at ~55mph and try and push all the cars to the inside lane, yet when it comes to a gap in the avg speed check zones and all the cars return to 70mph, they just overtake the HGV's again, and we're now back to square 1.

The majority of the cars will actually stick to ~50 during these zones, and i'm certain that due to the large wheels on HGV's a cars indicated 50 is probably something like a 47 in a HGV.

Either way it makes absolutely no logical sense for them to perform these overtaking manoeuvres during these zones.

Yep, that is my experience. The amount of times I've seen HGV drivers bullying drivers in lane 2 of a 50MPH average speed camera zone, flashing their lights and basically being total *****. I agree the large majority of HGV drivers are good drivers, but unfortunately a minority give them a really bad name.

What wasn't clear in the photo was the speed the tractor unit accelerated away from me and overtook the other cars.

Reason I bought the dash cam is that a few years ago, driving up the M61 towards the M6, a ladder fell off the back of a flatbed transit, went under the wheels of a HGV which shot the pieces out at my car travelling at 70MPH in the outside lane causing about £2K of damage. Because the transit didn't stop and I didn't have any evidence, I had to make a fault claim which I'm still paying for with increased premiums. The Highways Agency refused to help as I did not wait for them on the hard shoulder.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Have always thought it just needs a very small tweak to set all gantry cameras to measure distance between vehicles and dish out 3 points, and say £200 fine to anyone driving to close, most people would sort out correct distances pretty soon after that.

It wouldn't work as it couldn't tell if you were tailgating or whether someone has literally just pulled into the gap in front of you.

 

[Pyscho_Si]

That's a terrible idea due to the outdated "official" distances being grossly exaggerated to the point of not being visible in the real world, if you drive on the motorway in an overtaking lane while leaving the official breaking distance rather than a shorter but still safe one you will be overtaken, if you're in the rightmost lane you will be undertaken.

As soon as you leave a gap in the outside lane, someone moves into it. The amount of times I've sat at 70 in the outside line overtaking cars in the middle lane and felt like I was going backwards with the number of cars entering the gap I've left. Driving a hybrid you learn to embrace gaps but a lot of drivers do make it difficult.

 

[Scuzi]

Ever been in a queue to then get to end and find no crash... Its because of people leaving uncessary gaps and causing a knock on effect..

There is a gif to illustrate this somewhere I need to find.

It’s also those that don’t leave a large enough gap and over-brake which causes a domino effect back through the traffic. And those who move into gaps that aren’t big enough.

 

[ubersonic]

It wouldn't work as it couldn't tell if you were tailgating or whether someone has literally just pulled into the gap in front of you.

Problem solved: Once the smart motorway network is complete we install wifi on every gantry, that links to the radar equipped dashcam in every vehicle (we make having a dashcam law and part of MOT check) that way every time anyone speeds, tailgates, cuts somebody off, etc it's caught by the sensors and not only can they be fined but anyone with a faulty dash cam can be too! The systems could even log incidents not on motorways then upload them when they pass a gantry (or a McDonalds drive thru!).

I'm actually quite depressed having typed that as although it was 100% a joke it's also obviously something that our government would likely go for lol.

 

[Pyscho_Si]

Problem solved: Once the smart motorway network is complete we install wifi on every gantry, that links to the radar equipped dashcam in every vehicle (we make having a dashcam law and part of MOT check) that way every time anyone speeds, tailgates, cuts somebody off, etc it's caught by the sensors and not only can they be fined but anyone with a faulty dash cam can be too! The systems could even log incidents not on motorways then upload them when they pass a gantry (or a McDonalds drive thru!).

I'm actually quite depressed having typed that as although it was 100% a joke it's also obviously something that our government would likely go for lol.

Is that not one of the so called benefits of fully autonomous cars?

If we all end up driving fully autonomous cars, that would be the end of this forum.

 

[Scania]

Just curious if the tractor unit is allowed to do this when not pulling a trailer?

In short, no.

A tractor unit of 7.5t or under (which rules out 99% of them) can use the outside lane - and here’s the silly bit - so long as it’s fitted with a speed limiter.....

One without a speed limiter is NOT allowed to use the outside lane.

 

[Semple]

Holy ******* **** this is exactly my point. Do you realise how stupid this is? Do you not know that the bigger the gap at the front you leave the longer the queue becomes at the back, right? You literally are causing the problem by driving like that.

Ever been in a queue to then get to end and find no crash... Its because of people leaving uncessary gaps and causing a knock on effect..

There is a gif to illustrate this somewhere I need to find.

You mean this?

So by constantly accelerating and then braking, you're actually causing a ripple effect which can last for miles and miles.

 

[Pyscho_Si]

In short, no.

A tractor unit of 7.5t or under (which rules out 99% of them) can use the outside lane - and here’s the silly bit - so long as it’s fitted with a speed limiter.....

One without a speed limiter is NOT allowed to use the outside lane.

Thanks Scania ..... 4 pages and I got the answer I was looking for

 

[Dr Who]

They'd have to be under 3.5 tonnes for that to be the situation. Any goods vehicle over 3.5 tonnes gross has a max speed of 60 and is limited to 56. That's why basically every Sprinter/Transit/Eurothingy grosses at 3.5 tonnes.

And here is a prime example of why some people are clueless on the roads....

They Gross at 3.5 tonnes as that is what you can drive on a car licence without grandad rights.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/222571/HGV_driver_information_English.pdf

Please Note, Motorway, <7.5tonnes 70mph and all lanes..... You may wish to look at the other weight limits as well

 

[Dr Who]

Lane 1 then, 60ish is fine its under 60 your taking the ****. Its making slow vehicles overtake slow vehicles that's wrong. By doing under 60 that's exactly what's happening.
If you want to go that slow to save fuel there are plenty of suitable B roads that can get you everywhere.

The large vehicles are restricted to 56 MPH!!!!! In some cases, like Tesco, they are restricted to 50MPH.

And do tell me all these B-Roads where you can do a constant 58 mph?

Seriously, get a clue mate!

 

[Dr Who]

In short, no.

A tractor unit of 7.5t or under (which rules out 99% of them) can use the outside lane - and here’s the silly bit - so long as it’s fitted with a speed limiter.....

One without a speed limiter is NOT allowed to use the outside lane.

Indeed, a massive irony when the limit for a non-articulated sub 7.5T Tractor unit on the motorway is 70

Most are around 9 tonnes anyway so this really only has an impact on the smaller van based tractor units.

 

[Dr Who]

Same, on my commute to work i generally get behind a truck and stick the cruise control on, so much more chilled out no endless speeding up and slowing down as trucks usually maintain a steady speed. I just laugh at those that think you have a slow lane, middle lane and fast lane. Been flashed so many times for overtaking a car in the middle lane doing 65, me doing 70 in the outside.
Was flashed last night on my way home when the M62 signs flashed up 40, how dare i do 40 when Mr important wants to do 80+

*bows*

Exactly, you arrive relaxed and refreshed, unlike someone else on here with high blood pressure and a rage on about about all those people not doing 70+

 

[Entai]

You said

How., I said leaving huge gaps is bad. What's bad about doing the same speed as everyone else with the correct braking distance.
Leaving huge gaps for no reasons just has a massive knock on effect. Same goes for slow overtaking

All my comments work at any speed, you leave a big enough gap to think react and brake comfortably, and that does not mean you have to slam on your brakes, you put them on gently and carefully and slow reasonably once you have seen the brakes come on on the vehicle in front.

So that means at 5 to 10 mph I would be looking at leaving at least 20 to 25 odd meters between vehicles, personally, if someone jumps in in front into the gap, just lift off gently till the gap is back to a comfortable one.

Driving along with around one or even two car lengths between you and the vehicle in front, is asking for trouble in my humble opinion.