Home Secretary (finally) allows CBD oil for Billy Caldwell.

[dowie]

**Just to point out first this isn't related to some BS claims where people with all sorts of conditions claim they *need* marijuana etc.. CBD oil doesn't contain THC, people don't get high from it etc.. this is someone with a life threatening condition where this treatment actually has been shown to work and consultants are happy with it. Please don't turn the thread into some wider debate about cannabis itself.**

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-b...cannabis-after-boy-hospitalized-idUKKBN1JC0BE

I'm not sure if anyone has followed this but it does seem like it has been a bureaucratic nightmare for the mother. There was already some press coverage of this case back when his GP previously prescribed CBD oil and then was quickly shut down by the authorities. Some more coverage in the press too when his mother, last week, was stopped at Heathrow carrying some CBD oil:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44442064

Ms Caldwell says Billy's seizures have dramatically reduced while taking the cannabis oil, and she has vowed to keep fighting.

"I take the view that I'd rather have my son illegally alive than legally dead," she said.

"I will just go back to Canada and get more and I will bring it back again because my son has a right to have his anti-epileptic medication in his country, in his own home."

Billy was first given the treatment in the United States, where medical marijuana is legal.

He became the first person in the UK to receive a prescription after his local GP, Brendan O'Hare, began writing them.

The doctor was summoned to a meeting with Home Office officials recently and told to stop.

Hopefully this can help others in a similar situation, it doesn't necessarily mean opening the flood gates California style but for people who have a genuine medical need for treatment like this it does seem ludicrous that this has happened, the Home Office has been aware of this case for over a year now, they know full well it isn't being abused and that there are legitimate medical grounds for the use of CBD oil. Doctors can already prescribe far more addictive and widely abused drugs yet it seems the association with cannabis has prevented some common sense being applied here until now. It is a bit sad that, although they already know full well that this child has a life threatening condition it is only once he's been rushed to hospital and the possibility of some really negative PR becomes apparent that the Home Secretary steps in and does something.

 

[Skillmister]

The cannabis oil, which contains a substance called Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), is illegal in the UK but available elsewhere.

 

[Threepwood]

The product Billy is currently taking is CBD with a THC component.

^^ Beaten to it.

Anyway - It should be allowed I agree. (as CBD oil is also already allowed, no? and can already be perscribed?)"

 

[arknor]

how high is the thc content in the oil he takes? I saw somewhere someone claimed it was a high thc content.

either way if it helps with his condition I don't see the problem. may as well just legalize the whole lot.

sure less of a problem than alchohol which doesn't have any benefits at all?

 

[new boy]

I'm glad some common sense was applied in the end (though obviously too late)

Its quite the can of worms they are opening here. There must be other people in the country with similar cases of epilepsy. If I was one of those people I would be interested to hear why I couldn't receive the potentially life saving medication.

I would very much like to see a sensible and open minded debate happen without the "drugs are bad, mkay" crowd messing it up, but I doubt that will happen any time soon

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Was chatting to a guy at strawberry fair the other day who credited cbd with changing his life after a car wreck. Helped him with stress, anxiety and pain following a broken back. It also helped his seizures as he suffers from epilepsy.

All anecdotal but he seemed genuine.

 

[Energize]

TBH there aren't many 'drugs are bad mmkay people'. They're not the ones who ruin it. The ones who ruin it are the who say things along the lines of 'lol drugs are fine. How can you ban a plant? Everyone should be able to self-medicate if they want . Alcohol's bad so they should allow drugs'. It's normally that crowd arguing against any kind of regulation, then a more middle ground group getting frustrated with the hardcore liberalisers denying harm etc etc.

This is so naive. The only people that can "ruin it" are those who create and enforce the laws ruining it, that is the government/judiciary/police force.

There is virtually no evidence compounds related to cannabis are effective for the treatment of epilepsy anyway, so this whole cbd oil thing is largely much ado about nothing.

 

[new boy]

TBH there aren't many 'drugs are bad mmkay people'. They're not the ones who ruin it. The ones who ruin it are the who say things along the lines of 'lol drugs are fine. How can you ban a plant? Everyone should be able to self-medicate if they want . Alcohol's bad so they should allow drugs'. It's normally that crowd arguing against any kind of regulation, then a more middle ground group getting frustrated with the hardcore liberalisers denying harm etc etc.

Is it? I don't really follow politics all that much, so I cant really say that's not true. I was under the impression that the anti-cannabis side were the ones not willing to listen to the pro-cannabis side, and that those in a position of power are generally either anti-cannabis, or unwilling to speak up for the other side for fear of loosing votes. I'm not really talking about the people with dreadlocks that haven't washed for a month doing marches / protests etc, more those in power.

 

[explicit4u]

This is so naive. The only people that can "ruin it" are those who create and enforce the laws ruining it, that is the government/judiciary/police force.

There is virtually no evidence compounds related to cannabis are effective for the treatment of epilepsy anyway, so this whole cbd oil thing is largely much ado about nothing.

Why would a doctor sign off on it if there's no evidence to suggest it's effective?

Even the Home Office agreed with whatever the doctors said to declare it a 'medical emergency'.

Is it a case of lack of evidence to support it due to lack of actual testing, or the testing that has been done shows it's not really effective?

 

[dowie]

BBC quote from another article

ah fair enough, CBD itself doesn't contain THC, some other articles (one in the independent seemed to suggest he was taking two products) - though the main reason I highlighted the lack of THC was to try and avoid this turning into a general marijuana discussion.

The point re: bureaucracy/common sense remains the same.

 

[kindai]

Is it? I don't really follow politics all that much, so I cant really say that's not true. I was under the impression that the anti-cannabis side were the ones not willing to listen to the pro-cannabis side, and that those in a position of power are generally either anti-cannabis, or unwilling to speak up for the other side for fear of loosing votes. I'm not really talking about the people with dreadlocks that haven't washed for a month doing marches / protests etc, more those in power.

The last debate, well worth a read: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...5-4AF4-408A-A7C2-67F3E84133CC/MedicalCannabis

The current status: https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/legalisationofcannabismedicinalpurposes.html

 

[glenimp617]

CBD oil has been a life changer for two close family members. Not the rubbish you get in Holland and Barratts but the 20% ones which are still very much legal in the UK. It's about time people woke up.

There are lots of people suffering who know little to nothing about it.

 

[Nasher]

how high is the thc content in the oil he takes? I saw somewhere someone claimed it was a high thc content.

either way if it helps with his condition I don't see the problem. may as well just legalize the whole lot.

sure less of a problem than alchohol which doesn't have any benefits at all?

The side effects of alcohol are pretty short and it passes through the body quickly. Cannabis lingers for a long time and can lead to mental problems. Same as a lot of other drugs, which is why they are banned.

 

[new boy]

I was talking about debates on this forum.

Oh, OK, I wasn't.

The last debate, well worth a read: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...5-4AF4-408A-A7C2-67F3E84133CC/MedicalCannabis

The current status: https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/legalisationofcannabismedicinalpurposes.html

I shall have a look when I have the time to look properly, thanks.

 

[BowdonUK]

CBD oil is legal and can be bought in the UK, as long as the THC value is below 0.2%

I don't see the problem in supplying it for medical reasons. Don't doctors prescribe opium based medications already?

The side effects of alcohol are pretty short and it passes through the body quickly. Cannabis lingers for a long time and can lead to mental problems. Same as a lot of other drugs, which is why they are banned.

I will have to disagree with you about alcohol there. There are a lot of people in mental institutions due to alcohol abuse. A friend works as a nurse in one of those places and the 'medication' for them is a can of lager (or other brand). Because if they even try to reduce/remove alcohol they would die. Alcohol causes more damage and cost to society to fix than anything else.

Ok I found 2 articles.

This shows the number of people died in 2016 due to alcohol was 7327 (which accounts to 11.7 deaths per 100,000). https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-services-rehab-cut-jeremy-hunt-a8200876.html

In 2016, a total of 7,327 people died from alcohol-specific causes in the UK, equating to 11.7 deaths per 100,000 population – a rate significantly higher than that observed in 2001, when there were 10.6 deaths per 100,000 population.

This link goes to a freedom of information request to the office of national statistics asking about deaths caused by cannabis. https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...nformationfoi/deathscausedbycannabisingestion

It takes you to a link to download some charts. When looking at table 6b it shows there were 3 deaths related to cannabis in 2016. Because the table goes back to 1993 we can see between 1993 and 2016 that there as been a grand total of 34 deaths from cannabis.

 

[Angilion]

how high is the thc content in the oil he takes? I saw somewhere someone claimed it was a high thc content.

either way if it helps with his condition I don't see the problem. may as well just legalize the whole lot.

sure less of a problem than alchohol which doesn't have any benefits at all?

Alcohol helps with my medical condition (chronic pain - two different chronic pains to be more precise). Opiods much more so. I was given diacetylmorphine (i.e. medical grade heroin) in hospital once. That absolutely helped with my medical problem - I felt no pain at all despite the fact that I should have been in severe pain due to the medical procedure I'd had done (in addition to the pain I'm usually in). Opiods in general helped a lot of people in the USA with their medical problems...and now deaths from opiod overdose are the largest non-disease cause of death in the USA (close to 70,000 deaths per year, more than guns, more than vehicles) and opiod addiction is a huge problem there.

The fact that a drug might help some people with some conditions (and might not - there's little or no evidence for medical benefits of CBD, THC or any other cannabinoid) is not a valid argument for legalising it. It's not even a valid argument by itself for making it available on prescription - the massive opiod problem in the USA today was mainly caused by prescriptions.

In short, effective drugs have side effects. This is a problem even if the drug helps with a medical condition. It's why I choose the pain rather than the drugs that would stop the pain. I have learned to mostly screen it out most of the time. I couldn't learn to do that with being addicted to opiods. Lesser of two evils.

Is it? I don't really follow politics all that much, so I cant really say that's not true. I was under the impression that the anti-cannabis side were the ones not willing to listen to the pro-cannabis side, and that those in a position of power are generally either anti-cannabis, or unwilling to speak up for the other side for fear of loosing votes. I'm not really talking about the people with dreadlocks that haven't washed for a month doing marches / protests etc, more those in power.

If you want a good example, read the comments on Kurzegesat's video reviewing 3 reasons for keeping marijuana illegal. It's worth noting that the video is opposed to keeping it illegal. Despite that, the dominant theme in the comments is pro-cannabis people ranting at Kurzegesat for daring to even mention the existence of any such arguments. That's what usually happens when cannabis is mentioned.

I'll link rather than embedding since this is the video thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP15q815Saw

My position is pretty much the same as Kurzegesat's - there are significant drawbacks to legalising cannabis and it does have significant health risks, but if well regulated a legal market would probably be less harmful than what we have now. Although I wouldn't legalise smoking it, since that's a stupid and inherently harmful way to take the drug and it imposes the drug and the health risks on other people without their consent and it's filthy and thus either imposes an additional cleaning cost on the country or makes the country dirtier. Also, it stinks and makes the users stink. But that's much less important.

 

[Marky]

Good for the parent on getting what her son needed to stop (or reduce) his seizures. There are countless videos on the net that show the massive benefits to using CBD oil, and it should be legalized.

I hope that this is the first step to legalizing for others, but the restrictive nature in which the home office has allowed this treatment, doesn't give me a lot of hope.

I feel it should be fully legalized (for recreation and for medicinal uses) - And it will - it's just a matter of time. It's unfortunate that in this instance, we're not leading the way and will eventually be driven by other countries that step forward first.

 

[BowdonUK]

Alcohol helps with my medical condition (chronic pain - two different chronic pains to be more precise). Opiods much more so. I was given diacetylmorphine (i.e. medical grade heroin) in hospital once. That absolutely helped with my medical problem - I felt no pain at all despite the fact that I should have been in severe pain due to the medical procedure I'd had done (in addition to the pain I'm usually in). Opiods in general helped a lot of people in the USA with their medical problems...and now deaths from opiod overdose are the largest non-disease cause of death in the USA (close to 70,000 deaths per year, more than guns, more than vehicles) and opiod addiction is a huge problem there.

You're being a bit selective there. The 2 drugs you have mentioned have caused more deaths in society than cannabis as ever done. Look at my post and links showing the amount of deaths from alcohol. Then look at tables 6a and 6b of the ONS report on drugs deaths. You can see Opiod based medical deaths are high (which you even acknowledge in the US it is a major problem, yet they are legal). Meanwhile cannabis as been smoked recreationally in the US for many years, mainly due to a lack of enforcement because the country is so big. I would even say it is part of American culture. Take a look at the Cheech and Chong series of films, glorying cannabis. There as been no mention of a mental health crisis due to cannabis use.

The fact that a drug might help some people with some conditions (and might not - there's little or no evidence for medical benefits of CBD, THC or any other cannabinoid) is not a valid argument for legalising it. It's not even a valid argument by itself for making it available on prescription - the massive opiod problem in the USA today was mainly caused by prescriptions.

Lets real talk, we do have proof one way or the other if we take it on a case by case basis. The question is simple, does taking this special cbd oil, which I assume as above the uk level limit thc level, help this child with his seizures? If it does, which the doctors here are saying it does, and the home secretary as obviously seen the evidence and expert opinion before making his ruling then it DOES work.

In short, effective drugs have side effects. This is a problem even if the drug helps with a medical condition. It's why I choose the pain rather than the drugs that would stop the pain. I have learned to mostly screen it out most of the time. I couldn't learn to do that with being addicted to opiods. Lesser of two evils.

I agree with your position here. I went many years not having any medications, which surprised my doctors. But then we reach a point in life when we are nearly forced to take some medication to help. I take meds but I try to keep it at the most minimum, as you say, because of the side effects.

 

[Angilion]

[..] There are countless videos on the net that show the massive benefits to using CBD oil, and it should be legalized.[..]

There are countless videos on the net that show the massive harm caused by vaccinations, and so vaccinations should be outlawed.

There are countless videos on the net that show free energy machines, and so free energy machines should be used instead of every other form of generating power.

There are countless videos on the net that show time travel, and so time travel should be legalised.

There are countless videos on the net that show that the government of the USA carried out the 9/11 attacks and all the mass shooting killings in the USA, and so the government of the USA should be executed for treason and thousands of counts of murder.

There are countless videos on the net that show that <insert product here> cures cancer and that pharmaceutical companies know that and suppress it, so all cancer treatments should be outlawed and everyone in pharmaceutical companies should be executed for millions of counts of murder.

Give me half an hour and I'm sure I could come up with other "compelling" arguments using your "reasoning".

 

[new boy]

Do you think MS sufferers are faking that cannabis helps relieves the pain caused by their disease?

My uncle suffered with MS as long as I can remember. Cannabis relieved the pain he was in, without the majority of the side effects opiates would have caused, until he died a couple years ago.

In fact, **** you lot. I'm out. This is too personal for me. I wont be replying to this thread now...