How can people moan about the price of vista.

Mr.Clark said:
Actually, I quite agree with the lawsuit. ;)

Rather than a fine, they should have been forced to simply not include Internet Explorer or WMP with Windows (or make them PROPERLY uninstallable).

Maybe I'm just idealistic... it's just that I loathe IE with a passion.

yeah in the same way Car manufacturers should be forced not to include radios

or Apple should be forced not to include Its Media Player / Web browser with OSX.

A product can survive, as a free download, regardless of MS's "dominance" & bundling included software.

Firefox and Winamp manages quite nicely despite MS's inclusion of media player and IE in windows. Why couldnt Realplayer ? because RP was pants. thats why. The lawsuit was nothing to do with idealism and everything to do with jealousy
 
MrLOL said:
yeah in the same way Car manufacturers should be forced not to include radios
If I had a really good car radio, I'd ask if I could buy the car without one... *shrug*

Yes, the suit was petty, but look at it this way:

IE is unsecure. No 2 ways about it, you can do anything from crash it to compromise a n00b computer by having a maliciously crafted website.

Even if all MS did was untie IE from the core of the operating system that would do a lot to reduce the number of botnets in the world.

But no, they just pay the EU some money, charge more for Vista and keep on pumping out crap.



HEADRAT said:
But OSX is just BSD with a fancy front end stuck on it, Apple engineers haven't built the entire OS from the ground up.

Family Discount

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/familydiscount.mspx

HEADRAT

http://www.windowsvista.com/FamilyOffer

US and Canada only.

Because MS don't like the Brits ;)
 
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Lister2020 said:
The EU in general isn't being ripped off. It is MS making back their money on the unfair fines that the bloody EU made against them ( and I don't care what the hell they say. WMP and IE are the SUPERIOR PRODUCTS, and they don't even charge for them. Techincally they are freeware, so they don't even compete with other products. Bloody EU!)
true agreed ! :rolleyes:
 
Disagree, bundling media player with windows is unfair to other companies. While I prefer it to Real player the main reason was that I'd used it since version 6 or 7 and had to come to accept it. I only recently started using Itunes due to getting an iPod and find it far better than WMP though i'd never have thought about changing to iTunes before as WMP was right there in my quick launch options.

Same's true for IE. FF is better and the majority of people who know abit a bout PC's and not just use then to type letters will stick with IE because it's right there waiting for you.
 
i think it would be to the detrement of the product not to include a music player and internet explorer pre installed. how would people find real player etc if there was no internet explorer to use?

i do think microsoft uses it's dominence to it's advange, but who, in their position wouldn't?

the prices are too high though, and also unlawful if microsoft admit the price difference is to do with the EU fines.

the easy uninstalling of a product is a good and valid point though.

hopefully if the linex world joins forces into one competative product things might change, but at present development is fragmented.

apple use the same policy on their OS in including a media player and internet viewer. isn't this just as bad?

i think microsoft have done nothing but confuse the cosumer by splitting the product into 4 variants.

two pennies have been dropped into the pool.
 
notice the Dell ads are already stating that their pcs are shipping with vista home basic.

Wonder how many people who purchase it are gonna be disappointed by the lack of cetain options that they werent aware about and the problems they are likely to run into by getting a new OS so soon. The majority of people who use companies like Dell won't have a clue what to do if an error/bug occurs.
 
wormvortex said:
notice the Dell ads are already stating that their pcs are shipping with vista home basic.

Wonder how many people who purchase it are gonna be disappointed by the lack of cetain options that they werent aware about and the problems they are likely to run into by getting a new OS so soon. The majority of people who use companies like Dell won't have a clue what to do if an error/bug occurs.

what is the breakdown of different things with the different products?

home does what? etc....
 
Question.
How can people moan about the price of Vista

Answer.
Because Bill didn't become the richest man in the world by offering great bargains.
 
The whole "MS shouldn't put IE and Media Player in with Windows" argument doesn't wash with me. It's their OS, they can put what they like in it as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, if people really cared *that* much they just wouldn't use Windows.

Anyone with a brain knows they can install alternatives, and anyone without one doesn't know enough to care anyway.
 
Hudzy said:
The whole "MS shouldn't put IE and Media Player in with Windows" argument doesn't wash with me. It's their OS, they can put what they like in it as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, if people really cared *that* much they just wouldn't use Windows.

Anyone with a brain knows they can install alternatives, and anyone without one doesn't know enough to care anyway.

It's only companies like Real and Symantec that are complaining anyway, they seem to think that people don't install their crap because Microsoft bundle alternatives with the OS.

They don't think that maybe it's because their software is just rubbish bloatware.
 
the-void said:
Question.
How can people moan about the price of Vista

Answer.
Because Bill didn't become the richest man in the world by offering great bargains.
true no ,but what business man did ? plus bargins arn,t always the best product ..comprenda :eek:
 
Using both firefox an iexplorer, and i prefer iexplorer, same as for winamp and wmp, winamp takes ages to even start, while wmp11 starts instantly, also much more used to the wmp buttons&layout and i like its media library, i just use winamp for stuff that wmp wont play correctly, true its not perfect but i prefer it far above winamp...

On topic:
Because its so bloody expensive for some people, imo people who say ok to 350 quid for an OS have way too much money to spend, and ignore not everyone is rich, there are poor people too you know, 350 is a lot of money, microsoft is asking way too much for it, considering one quarter of their revenue is profit, they sold for 44 billion $ last year, and they've made 12.6 billion US$ of profit, they could make it cheaper, but they dont, although i dont hate microsoft and understand why the price is so high, i'm just pointing out the price can be at least 20% lower and MS will still make a profit, thats why people are ''moaning'' about it.
 
Until the price of vista full retail comes down to about £150 - I am sticking with XP. If it doesnt come down to that price in the next year then I won't use the PC for gaming.

This one install per motherboard will hurt sales of motherboards aswell. People will hold off upgrading because they can't install their copy of vista with a new mobo.

I hate PC gaming more every year. :(
 
The EU in general isn't being ripped off. It is MS making back their money on the unfair fines that the bloody EU made against them ( and I don't care what the hell they say. WMP and IE are the SUPERIOR PRODUCTS, and they don't even charge for them. Techincally they are freeware, so they don't even compete with other products. Bloody EU!)

Absolute claptrap.

Much of the EU's case was based around the fact that MS refused software developers access to key parts of library files that put them at a distinct disadvantage to MS when developing certain types of software. This is one company blatantly taking advantage of their position and is clearly anti-competitive. Regardless of what software you prefer (and I suppose SOMEONE has to like IE), they should be allowed to compete on a level playing field when the OS market is all but sewn-up by one of the companies competing for a slice of a particular software market.

The size of the fine reflects Microsofts apparant contempt for the proceedings against them - they dragged out the case against them for years (allowing them to effectively kill off any competition to certain server applications) and then ignored the EU ruling for 2 years, resulting in the fine being imposed on them.

With the competition well and truly out of the way the prices are starting to get ramped up - after Vista we'll be moving towards renting OS software and anything who thinks that's going to be cheaper for the likes of you and me has not been paying attention to the trend that's developed over the last 10 years.
 
Becuase MS make 10 Billion a year, and give home users a hard time with licencing, support and products that no one really needs unless you have to have shiny things and DX10.

Home computers used to be cheap and easy until these goons took over.

They were the first and ONLY company who were able to develop and sustain a viable OS that supported hundreds & thousands of different pieces of hardware in various combinations. They have no problem taking advantage of this by charging outrageous prices to you and me, and making sure they get their cut by releasing a must have upgrade every 4 or 5 years.

At the end of the day, they are the only solution that provides a working, all-in-one easy to use PC package that your granny could pick up in an afternoon. The only real alternative is Linux, and even in easy-go-happy formats like Ubuntu, it still doesn't compete with the Lego easy shiny fuctionality of MS's products.

Not only that, Windows provides everything you need to get going. You don't need to choose or download a media player or web browser. Its all there out of the box - off you go.... easy as that.

In colusion with the likes of Dell, Gateway, Intel, Norton, AMD, ATI, Nvidia, Creative, game companys etc, MS have built up a virtual monopoly that can't be broken. You must have Windows.

One day, Linux will be a great alternative - when it is easy to set up and run by clicking your mouse a few times. But all that command line techy stuff has to go out the door. It NEEDS to be pretty and icon-clicky-easy. Otherwise the public won't bother. Far easier to throw some $$ at MS.

The biggest failing of Windows is its size. Its not a pure OS anymore - full of useless bloat that drives the price of hardware ever upwards. Its now a PC running, security managing, multimedia playing, office running, world communicating, toast making monstrocity that rules your CPU and hardware. MS and their partners love it ($$$). We tolerate it because we have no choice.

What ever happened to Load""?
 
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Mr.Clark said:
If I had a really good car radio, I'd ask if I could buy the car without one... *shrug*

if i had a really good web browser, like firefox

id ask if i didnt have to use IE

which you dont.

Yes you cant actually delete the program, but what difference does it make. You can change your default web browser over to Firefox, and you needn't never know IE was ever there.
 
MrLOL said:
if i had a really good web browser, like firefox

id ask if i didnt have to use IE

which you dont.

Yes you cant actually delete the program, but what difference does it make. You can change your default web browser over to Firefox, and you needn't never know IE was ever there.

Nail. Hit. Head.

There's the point. It's not like Microsoft embeds IE or WMP in so deep that it MUST be used. It's removable, and alternatives can be installed.

The way I also see it, is that Microsoft try to improve security by restricting programs' access to certain parts of the OS. Yet then they have the EU up their backsides about it.

It really is "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
 
Tute said:
Nail. Hit. Head.

There's the point. It's not like Microsoft embeds IE or WMP in so deep that it MUST be used. It's removable, and alternatives can be installed.

you cant actually "remove" IE as such

because windows uses components of it in its operating system.

You can remove "access" to it. Which basically just hides it in system files somewhere so only the system part of IE is used, not the consumer web browser

which is fine by me. Does anybody actually care what programmes are or arent in the windows directory ?

all that matters is that you can set Firefox to default, and never have to use IE again. Which you can.
 
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