How can you ask god for a cure and not blame him for the cause ?

[Hodders]

A friend of a friend's wife has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer.

It sucks.

It's horrible.

They have asked for prayers for a miracle. They want a miracle from god to cure the cancer.

Why would a benign, loving god cause cancer in someone and then choose to cure them - for a laugh ? To watch them suffer ? Oh, enough people pray - I'll change my mind and cure them. WHY ?

I simply cannot understand how people can keep a faith that allows a god to be such a total b*****d and still be prayed to and asked for a cure.

This is a god that (according to belief) created the world, as part of that creation (s)he created worms with a life-cycle that involves causing blindness in innocent children - for a laugh ? (s)he killed their only son to 'forgive us our sins' - why not just say sorry.

This post is not a troll - I want to understand the christian viewpoint, how can they continue to have a faith in a god like this ?

I hate the idea of this woman having to deal with the weeks/months ahead, talking to her young children about what is happening to her. It all seems so desperately tragic.

 

[Psyoletic]

This 100%


I cannot stand it when people become ill and ask friends and families for their "prayers" or when a thread pops up on GD asking for very same thing asking strange people on the internet to pray for them.

The same people who baptise their children when they themselves are not Christians and have no faith in god.

 

[Lytton]

Uh oh

 

[Threepwood]

Our Letter Box,
Hallowed be your shiny rim.
Your poo will be done
in Speakers Corner, as it is in GD.


*all rise*


Today's hymn will be


Life and Death by Michael Giacchino


Always Look on the Bright Side of Life - Monty Python's Life of Brian.

4 8 15 16 23 42

 

[Lytton]

But to answer your question, consider what others have said in relation to your query:

. Maimonides
. Francisco Suarez
. Thomas Hobbes
. Nicolas Malebranche
. Leibniz, Bayle and Voltaire
. Immanuel Kant
. C.S Lewis
. Nelson Pike
. Robert M Adams
. Eleonore Stump
. Hans Jonas
. Marilyn McCord Adams
. Karl Marx
. Daniel Dennett
. Richard Dawkins
. A.C Grayling

In the writings of these names shall you find most discussion relating to the nature of good and evil, and how they may be reconciled, or how they may not be, as the list contains authors who have written in defence and opposition to religious takes on sin, health and mortality.

For the record, i'm not a christian, but asking overclockers or even everyday christians probably won't yield many answers. Read what the big names have said if you really want to learn.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

You really can't have any such discussion with people who believe carbon dating is a scam and that the planet is only a few thousand years old.

 

[wesimmo]

Finding logical inconsistencies in religion, that's a rabbit hole you don't want to go down...

 

[amigafan2003]

/Devils advocate

It's because the illness wasn't caused by God, it was caused by the Devil, so it's only right to pray to God for a cure.

 

[skyripper]

People with cancer, or people with loved ones with cancer need hope.
Those who need hope often do things they wouldn't normally do or ask others for it.
Including praying.

Whether you are a believer or not doesnt matter. Whether they are a believer or not doesnt matter. What matters is that in the grip of such a disease people need strength and support that may not normally be there.

That's why people pray or ask for prayers. They don't stop to think "I'll ask for prayers, but only if I really really believe.", they don't stop to think "This stuff may or may not be real, so I guess I better not waste other peoples time."

 

[markweatherill]

I want to understand the christian viewpoint

Don't forget other monotheistic faiths are available.

 

[asim18]

Had something similar several months ago. My mate caught a cold on the eve of his holiday and his immune system handled it about 3 days later. He told me he prayed to God to make him better and basically believed that if he didn't pray his immune system would have just been like "**** it he hasn't prayed to God lets leave this cold alone".

Dude lost 1000 intelligence points that day

 

[cosmogenesis]

Original sin is the answer here, getting kicked out of eden was when all of the issues started apparently. Simple as that I think.

 

[Threepwood]

Had something similar several months ago. My mate caught a cold on the eve of his holiday and his immune system handled it about 3 days later. He told me he prayed to God to make him better and basically believed that if he didn't pray his immune system would have just been like "**** it he hasn't prayed to God lets leave this cold alone".

Dude lost 1000 intelligence points that day

Worth a quick read - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-schiffman/why-people-who-pray-are-heathier_b_1197313.html

 

[asim18]

Worth a quick read - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-schiffman/why-people-who-pray-are-heathier_b_1197313.html

Load of absolute tripe. So meditation calms people down. Prayer on the other hand is when people become deluded the dude is trying to say it's OK to be deluded. You can still meditate and not believe in an imaginary friend.

It's got nothing to do with someone thinking their immune system receives permission from "God" to say it can start working. I mean God cant even speak to you let alone somehow magically activate and deactivate your immune system, you have to have an especially bad level of delusion to think stuff like that.

 

[The Running Man]

It's a test.

 

[Threepwood]

You can still meditate and not believe in an imaginary friend.

Indeed.

Do you not find it interesting that people who pray have the same benefits as those who meditate? (so science says anyway)




Hold on, did you really read it?

 

[asim18]

Indeed.

Do you not find it interesting that people who pray have the same benefits as those who meditate? (so science says anyway)




Hold on, did you really read it?

It's a load of nonsense from the title, the title is constructed to deceive. I know many people who pray who are unhealthier than some people who don't pray therefore the article identifies itself as a biased and baseless sales pitch from the first sentence.

Titles are very important, they can save you reading bull**** and learning things from the wrong sources. You need to be aware that you're not going to learn a thing about the physiological effects of Meditation from an article with a title like that.

I will start by reading this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_activity_and_meditation and then perhaps have a discussion with an academic in the subject.

 

[Threepwood]

That is hardily evidence based science Asim.

You cannot compare the person who prays (and is unhealthy) to the person who does not pray (but who is healthier than the unhealthy praying person.)

You need a group of each.

Then you need to get half the praying unhealthy people to stop praying and note the results.

Likewise you need to get half the healthy praying people to start praying and note the results.


With those kinds of tests, comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges the results are in favour, statistically that praying (or whatever else that is akin to praying) actually works at keeping you healthier.

Do note that they are also saying that this is only the case for the person doing the praying. The results are not very strong for suggesting this is the case for a third party that you are praying for.

 

[asim18]

You need a group of each.

Then you need to get half the praying unhealthy people to stop praying and note the results.

Likewise you need to get half the healthy praying people to start praying and note the results.

That test is about as ridiculous as the article.

First of all what's your hypothesis so I know what wavelength you're on?

 

[Threepwood]

First of all what's your hypothesis so I know what wavelength you're on?

I'm going to go with what Dr Dude in the article says, that meditation and prayer have measurable effects on a human being. Slower brain waves, feelings of control, peace of mind.

That this physiological state occurs during meditation as well as praying.

Is that not fascinating?



Listen.
Thank you for today's Epiphany.
Lets go down the rabbit hole.

.
.
.
.
.

If prayer/meditation can make a person feel better - Then asking their nearest and dearest to pray/meditate during a hard time *will* lift that groups spirits. Collective slower brainwaves, Collective feelings of control, Collective peace of mind...


...Catching this drift? It gets better, There is plenty of epiphanying to be had.


We can hypothesize, since this physiological state is measurable in the individual (and therefore affects the individual) that this would carry over, affecting the social group too. Benefiting the whole, and making life easier for everyone during said hard time.


Trouble is that prayer, in the form of actually asking for something from (I would call it 'The All' and not 'God', okay?) is bat **** crazy.


Actually, in the context of the OP's friends, getting everyone to pray may be well and good for the simple benefits, but it makes a vulgar mockery of that, with its twisted ''ask God for a miracle'' part.


My spider sense is saying that prayer has been hijacked by many faiths. And that is sad. Why is prayer and not meditation the norm? It reeks of control. No? A way of keeping the beneficial effects, but wrapped up in a stupid, convoluted, disputed, fought over load of old donkey dung.


Why leave out the part where, One can meditate instead?



Plot twist:

It's obviously all so terribly backwards; one should blatantly meditate before going anywhere near prayer; If at all even, idk.

Prayer without Meditation first is just asking for trouble. And all while lending support to a local controlling/ex controlling religion.



TLDR: Maybe mediation should be the daily practice while prayer should be saved for after tea and biscuits?

That test is about as ridiculous as the article.

The method however - is not!