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How did the UK become totalitarian police state?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Paul_cz, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Thecaferacer

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 480

    I never said it was a left wing issue. I merely said that the left believe even innocuous speech leads to violence. It was a sarcastic comment that by the standards of the left she would be prosecuted for what she said.

    The original point is that you were equating brands comments to be on par with what Farage apparently did as a child. I firmly disagree.
     
  2. Thecaferacer

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 480

    Unlikely she will apologise. She will argue her right to offend with a joke against an Emmanuel Goldstein figure and be broadly backed up. look at the keeness of the MSM in supporting the milkshake attacks. In comparison to that all Jo Brand did was said some words
     
  3. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,066

    No. I may not have been clear, that is not the point I was trying to make. I don't think they are the same, other than I don't thin either is an example of criminal behavior.

    Farage defended his actions by saying that what he said was not true (he did not believe what he was saying/ is not a fascist) and was simply being offensive.

    I see nothing wrong with that excuse although I think what he said was extremely offensive .

    He was highly offensive and the remarks are not equal as he was a minor (I had to defend Farage in another post recently on this issue, which is why I remember what he said).
    I agree with you here and what you are saying.

    I still think his response here, to call for police action right out of the gate is highly inappropriate.
    This must be where we disagree.

    He has every right to be angry and offended particularly as he has been subject to criminal assault.

    However.

    I don't think that speech like this should be a matter for police investigation or prosecution (in my opinion).

    Just really surprised that Farage went the criminal prosecution road here.
    I thought it was the one aspect of his politics where I agreed with him i.e freedom of speech issues.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  4. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,389

    People have been successfully prosecuted for far less direct incitements to violence in the context of a 'joke'.

    Mark Meechan immediately springs to mind.

     
  5. Thecaferacer

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 480

    I can agree with you there but what Jo Brand said concerns me.

    It's been called a joke as she is a comedian, but the structure of the comment was designed to purely get a laugh off people thinking Jo Brand was fantasising about an acid attack. The audience laughed so they obviously thought it was funny.

    If you substitute some keys words it becomes more problematic such as " why bother with milkshake when you could rape his kids. Obviously I wouldn't do it - that just my fantasy"

    I'll defend free speech, especially in the world of comedy as that's often a well needed mirror on our society, but what she said....its way to close to the mark. She doesn't have the comedic skill for that unlike say Frankie Boyle.
     
  6. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,609

    Maybe if you know you'd use the full context, it wouldn't seem disingenuous, they cut out some dialogue to make exactly this sort of scene and you've fallen for it.

    The fact is that she didn't mention Farage by name and that's rather important because in a similar circumstance no one gave a **** about when Farage did it to Jo Cox and continues to do it every single time he opens his mouth to a massive amount of the population. Maybe if he didn't want the attention of violence he shouldnt have incited it himself. I wont cry for him, he made this bed.

    Hypocrite as a word is starting to bore me.



     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  7. Thecaferacer

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 480

    Have you been at that Kool Aid yet again? I listened to her full comment on radio 4. Unless you think it was the BBC who editted it to infer this.

    She may not have said "I want to douse Nigel Farage in battery acid" but whilst discussing him having milkshake over him she said what she did. You are truly gullible if you believe she was discussing a hypothetical third person. One of your luvvies screwed up. Accept it and move on
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  8. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,066

    Concerns me what she said, as did Hitler salute dog gag guy or rape gag political man. But so does the criminalization of these forms of speech and politicians who call for such things from both the left and the right.

    In our unhealthy political enviroment the call to arrest political opponents who say highly offensive things, you can see the appeal.

    And also the danger.

    Be offended, attempt to make sure they don't say such things again, fine. With rape gag man or dog gag man, don't vote for them, Brand, don't watch, complain to the broadcaster, debate and make clear its not civil or acceptable language.

    Criminalization.

    I don't agree and in this case where a senior and influential politician screams 'arrest' right of the bat without reflection.

    I don't agree and I view it with concern.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  9. Paul_cz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 1, 2009

    Posts: 2,350

  10. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,066

    Yes the criminalization.

    The title I don't have an issue with its how the far right are dealt with here, humor is commonly used (title is a joke on the dead Kennedy's song, Nazi punks **** off) . Last E.D.L march in Glasgow people lined the streets and just laughed at them.

    They did not like it.

    Some years back, on my way to work was a skinhead builder working in a predominantly Jewish residential area, he decided to wear a big swastika t-shirt, looked very intimidating, very large gentlemen. I just gave him a very friendly greeting 'how's it going wee man' etc. Made a point of stopping, being very friendly and indicating I was far from intimidated.

    He got the message and altered his attire. I altered my morning greeting.

    Its the civil way of dealing with these things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 12:10 PM