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How did the UK become totalitarian police state?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Paul_cz, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,412

    Location: Panting like a fiend

    Because the only real reason people have them is for use on other people.

    There is zero legal reason for anyone other than a serving police officer with his issued one, to have a stun gun in the UK, they've IIRC never been sold legally over here, they have zero uses against anything other than humans.
    This isn't something you buy by mistake and don't realise it's on dodgy legal ground.

    The likes of Crossbows have legitimate uses, but you step outside of them and you'll find yourself facing the police pretty fast (and probably armed police at that), they're also pretty obvious and thus unlikely to be used for something like, say mugging someone.

    Then there is the fact it's disguised to look like a torch, so even the self defence argument loses any minor shreds of plausibility it might ever have had (not that that would have made a difference, from memory it's a binary offence), and almost certainly is dealt with as an aggrevating factor, as the only reason to have a disguised weapon is to try and hide the fact you've got it - which suggests you know it's illegal.

    The fact it was found during a police search of his property should really tell you something about the guy, as the police don't generally do searches of people's accommodation without some fairly good reason, either because they've arrested the person for a crime that allows it, or because they've presented evidence to a judge or magistrate who has deemed it sufficient reason.

    Finally a google suggests he was a drug dealer, so yeah that's not going to have gone down well with the prosecution, jury, or Judge when they consider the fact he had a disguised prohibited weapon.
     
  2. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,218

    Location: Düsseldorf

    Thread should really be in GD with that title.

    Idiot broke the law. Idiot goes to jail.

    Good.
     
  3. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 5, 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    Umm police state is certainly here but not because of things like stun guns.

    Yes civil liberties are being taken away and we will have a total martial law police state by way of staged/planned socioeconomic collapse very very soon, but no one should be at liberty to possess weapons lol.
     
  4. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 10,980

    Location: Gloucestershire

    I do feel that carrying an illegal gun should be more heavily punishable than an illegal stun gun. But I'm not super unhappy at this chap getting 5 years.
     
  5. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,559

    Location: Surrey

    Whether the punishment seems harsh or not, it is clearly outlined in the law which the criminal knowingly broke needlessly.

    Nails it.
     
  6. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,017

    Location: Reading, UK

    It's nothing like that.
    If the UK was even a quarter of the way to being a totalitarian state, the Police would actually have the powers and authority to arrest, charge and convict a LOT more of those who currently get away despite being blatantly guilty... that, or the Committee for State Security would simply make them 'vanish'. :D

    We'd also be sending the convicted off to work camps as punishment... somewhere like McDonalds or Primark, I expect.
     
  7. Overlag

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,918

    Location: Romford/Hornchurch, Essex

    How the hell does the police and justice system doing their jobs equal the UK being a totalitarian state?
     
  8. Paul_cz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 1, 2009

    Posts: 2,334

    It really blows my mind that you guys are so perfectly ok with the government taking away all tools for your own self-defense, against both criminals (who get the weapons anyway) and government itself, should it turn tyrannical. And then you are ok with your government jailing people for 5 years for simply posessing a stun gun..I just can't.

    But hey what do I know, I am only from a country that spent 40 years in totalitarian nightmare.
     
  9. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,559

    Location: Surrey

    Criminals that get weapons evidently get put away in prison.

    OP advocates for people to have the ability to carry weapons to protect themselves from criminals but protests a criminal with previous convictions getting put away for getting hold of illegal weapons.

    With logic like that, i can't take your 'expertise' on totalitarian governments seriously i'm afraid
     
  10. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    The law is a bit stupid when it comes to this stuff tbh. Criminals arm themselves no matter what the law says.
     
  11. Paul_cz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 1, 2009

    Posts: 2,334

    From what I read (and please correct me if I am wrong here), the guy got specifically convicted for having stun gun in his home. No other crime. Yes? Sure he might not be a nice guy. Sure he might have had some priors. But he was still jailed for 5 years for one specific act of having a nonfunctioning stun gun in his home. Not for anything else.
    Now, you might say "he was a bad guy, he deserves it anyway", but
    1) you don't really know that, and even when someone does something bad does not mean he has to be forever an evil person
    2) this kind of thinking can turn extremely easily against yourself

    It is in every government's interest to have a docile unarmed population that has no means to overthrown it should it exceed its mandates. I am very happy with our current gun/weapon laws - Czechland is near top of the ladder when it comes to safety and yet we are allowed to defend ourselves. EU wants to change our laws of course, but I will do all I can to prevent that (mostly through voting).
     
  12. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,410

    Might as well not have laws against it then?
     
  13. something daft already!!

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 11, 2007

    Posts: 4,230

    Location: South East

    Self defence. Yeah right. One does not like to judge a book by it's cover but.
     
  14. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,984

    According to UK law (currently) this guy is a drug dealer and probably other things, so by current standards he is forever evil. And i never expect the vastly underfunded police to be knocking down my door to assault me for doing nothing.
     
  15. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,179

    Location: La France

    Stun guns are a banned weapon (Section V) under the provisions of the Firearms Act in the UK. Possession of such items = custodial sentence.
     
  16. Paul_cz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 1, 2009

    Posts: 2,334

    Looking at the results of the global peace index where UK ranks 57th while Czechland ranks 7th, I am not sure your laws are working out quite as well as you hope.
    But it is all up to you; if you are happy with people being jailed for having pepper sprays and stun guns at home, even for selfdefense, and do not think you could ever need it, so be it.
    I was just extremely surprised when I read that article; I found it insane so I wanted to ask about it. Apparently you find it fine, so all's good.
     
  17. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 17,410

    Plenty of legal things you can use for self defense.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,984

    And the US is 121, guns dont seem to matter much. It's ultimately down to how poor the population at the bottom is vs the immense gaudy riches of the top.
     
  19. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,412

    Location: Panting like a fiend

    Aye, you just have to;
    A: Make sure they have a legitimate non violent use
    B: Don't say they were specifically for self defence.

    A small can of some sort of spray in your purse (if you're a women) for example can be used for self defence at a pinch, but might also be for purfume, deodorant, or hair fixing.
    Any number of household objects kept handy around the house could be used for self defence in an emergency.

    A Stun gun is an illegal weapon regardless of the claimed use, it has no other function, and a disguised one just tells law enforcement that you tried to hide it when they find it.
     
  20. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,410

    If I was doing DIY in my bedroom and left a hammer there, it would be quite handy.