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How did the UK become totalitarian police state?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Paul_cz, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. kwerk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 23, 2009

    Posts: 5,748

    I don't see why anyone couldn't carry a handgun if they go through a background check, psychological evaluation and a yearly training/safety qualification course similar to what armed police would go through.
     
  2. kwerk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 23, 2009

    Posts: 5,748

    Never and I've never even been in a fist fight or had any kind of conflict in my whole life, but I've never made any claims on my insurance policies either because I'm a careful person and like you say avoidance is the best self-defense. But I like having the option to defend myself. And not just against criminals but against vicious dogs too (or maybe even a mountain lion or black bear that we have around here). I carry bearspray in the back country as a first option but I wouldn't feel at all comfortable without a gun.
     
  3. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,417

    Location: Panting like a fiend

    Ah so several months of intensive training and qualification every year? at a cost of many thousands...

    Or are you talking about the US police, many of whom wouldn't get a shotgun licence in the UK due to things like domestic violence.
     
  4. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,042

    Being for guns in the uk is like being a freeman of the land, perennial losers. It’s never happening.
     
  5. kwerk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 23, 2009

    Posts: 5,748

    Oh yeah I forgot the UK doesn't even trust policemen with guns. I don't know how many rounds the few armed ones send down range each year but most people in the US who have gone to the bother of a carry permit go to the range at least monthly and probably do 5,000+ rounds a year which is quite a lot of practice. Not to mention all the IDPA, USPSA and IPSC clubs, and all the courses available in each state run by former military/police https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWRq_-PAW2I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDaVIbJ4AU
     
  6. kwerk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 23, 2009

    Posts: 5,748

    I just looked it up. It's 9 days a year of refresher training for standard AFOs. And it seems to be mostly classroom time not even live fire drills.
     
  7. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,040

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Yet despite all these 'precautions' the ratio of deaths by firearm is significantly higher in the US than the UK.

    So what makes you think the UK's situation would be improved by the introduction of wider firearm ownership?
     
  8. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,249

    That's not even close to being true, the UK has around 6,500 policemen trained in the use of firearms, the key word there being trained because ya' know being able to kill another human at a distance is sort of a big thing that not everyone is cut out for.
     
  9. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 10,985

    Location: Gloucestershire

    What I meant was that only small women and the elderly should be allowed. Y'know, to even the playing field.

    Spelling it out, I was being facetious to rail against your argument in favour of guns.
     
  10. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,523


    People in the UK often forget in this debate that the USA has plenty of places where there are critters that might actually kill you and eat you (And not necessarily in that order! :eek:)

    They/we also underestimate the role and importance of "Subsistence Hunting" as a part of rural US life.

    50 cal Desert Eagle?

    :cool:
     
  11. C64

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007

    Posts: 12,169

    Location: London

    Were living in a left wing fascist dictatorship if civil war or anything like that ever breaks out i'll be taking up arms against the uk.

    Queens a german not my queen and lib lab con all want to be part of a communist eu super state.
     
  12. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,042

    What? In what regard is the extremely right wing EU and extremely right wing British establishment ‘left wing’ and ‘communist’?

    Do you even understand the words your flinging around? You are living in some schizophrenic fantasy that simply isn’t functionally true.

    Id like to see the reasoning that either is left wing, little things like the NHS are seemingly out on a pedestal by everyone regardless of view point. Corporations/businesses are still private enterprises run by individuals which is the only definition of right wing that even matters.
     
  13. C64

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007

    Posts: 12,169

    Location: London

    how is it not true everyone and everything that has power are extremely left wing
     
  14. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,042

    Power structures are not innately left wing, but for a functional society that isn’t run by anarchy, one must give up certain rights.

    Do you want to get of the police, military, fire service and what have you just so you can live in total harmony with your neighbours?
     
  15. Ergates

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 24, 2005

    Posts: 194

    A quick check of the US firearm murder and suicide rate should provide a pretty good reason why.
     
  16. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,533

    US is not a good indication of what the rates would be like in pretty much any other country.

    Personally though outside of some edge case exceptions like certain law enforcement scenarios I don't see a reason for someone in the UK to carry a handgun ever. I am generally pro-gun however.
     
  17. Ergates

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 24, 2005

    Posts: 194

    How is it true that they are? What is your definition of "left wing" that could be applied to, for instance, the Tory party?
     
  18. Ergates

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 24, 2005

    Posts: 194

    Whilst it's fair that it *might* not be - I'd vote against finding out. There are some things that you're just best off not knowing.
     
  19. Ergates

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 24, 2005

    Posts: 194

    No they don't. When people in the UK argue against gun ownership they're almost always arguing against handguns and/or semi-automatic rifles (e.g the mass-shooter's favourate the AR-15). People owning shotguns/rifles for shooting animals (for whatever reason) is generally accepted. Apart from people who are also against blood sports, but that's another matter.
     
  20. efish

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 934

    I think that's an urban thing rather than the u.k. Guns are a working tool in the country side, many folks own guns, don't have the same level of critters, but they are an essential part of rural working life.

    I think you are unaware of some aspects of U.K. policing.

    Guns are now more common than you may think, particularly in urban public spaces, police need to be very well trained given the skill needed to have to discharge firearms in a densely packed urban environment.

    Where guns are needed for protection they are carried as a matter of routine by all officers i.e. Northern Ireland. No argument in regard to the police routinely carrying weapons in the U.K. in environments where they are routinely needed for protection of the police and the wider public.


    In 2018 when the last figures come from guns were discharged by police 12 times in England and Wales, 18, 746 firearms operations.

    Gives an idea of the restraint and professionalism of the U.K. police and also gives you an idea of the scale of the issue ( that was the year of the London bridge terror attacks, which is included in the 'discharge' stats).

    Where I live we have a lot of big political events, style is low key, you don't notice the snipers on the roof, not unusual to walk up a side street and see five extremely well armed officers emerge from behind a bin to block you're path.

    In the city you are never that far away from an armed response team, its just not in you're face, different policing style which favors low key/ mobile rapid deployment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019