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How do we change the UK political system

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by SPG, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,646

    So it has become apparent (at least to my dumb brain) that due to BREXIT our entire political system is in tatters and no longer fit for purpose.

    So trying to put aside 700 years of history of people sitting in high places who are so out of touch with the general population and just by a stroke of luck it ends up being good for us.

    Compromise is seemingly a dirty word in this day and age :(
     
  2. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,569

    Location: Cambridge

    Changing the system will be as, if not more decisive than Brexit and shouldn’t even be attempted in the current climate.

    What’s needed is statesman, but the mob are more interested in blood.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,139

    Just do it, don't ask the public, just force that **** through.
     
  4. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,569

    Location: Cambridge

    Just get on with it you mean?
     
  5. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,644

    I don't think a change is necessarily needed but sometimes a system needs the old turn it off and on again - some kind of reset would probably do the country a world of good.
     
  6. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,139

    Get on with legitimately fixing issues yes, the voting system is the most pertinent issue facing this country right now, domestic problems shouldn't be tackled until we stop wasting time in this political football as it's just making it worse, while the people forced to handle it are constantly pressured to work the unworkable at Whitehall, we're losing talent and left with the worst of them.
     
  7. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,167

    Location: La France

    Swiss system please.
     
  8. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,646

    The Swiss system is pretty good, but their economy is vastly different.
     
  9. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,981

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  10. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    More voting from home, Secure and electronic and we will vote on everything. 100k sigs triggers a vote start with Brexit, Same with the options about leaving. The same with migration, National debt options should be discussed too. Drug policy? Enviroment?


    Voting for a party is the real problem i have with democracy, And sometimes i feel like democracy is a sham as there are no partys i like. But i should have a vote and outcome on important issues as well. You get that whem people can vote online for certain topics. I think the establishment fear such a system because it would be real people power and they do not trust average people. But they should be reminded Demo Cracy is Greek for people power.
     
  11. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,214


    Your idea of direct democracy will result in abject failure. Tried, test and with horrific results as populist demagogues lay waste to society.
     
  12. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,554

    Exhibit A: The Brexit referendum.
     
  13. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    I had an edit, Well then it aint democracy in my view. Because no party ever aligns fully on the views you want. And loads of issues they ignore you on or refuse to let people vote. They also tend to shift thier policy as well.
     
  14. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 29,123

    Location: Surrey

    Stop the lying.

    Anyone found to be lying (knowingly) will be immediately removed from office and not allowed to work in government ever again.
     
  15. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,096

    Which novel would you suggest?
     
  16. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,981

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  17. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,214


    The problem with the Swiss system is that regular people get tired of so many votes or simply lack the time. If you don't feel strongly about a subject you aren't going to disrupt your weekend to go to the town hall and vote. This lets the extremists dont those with too much time on their hands to have a disproportionate say in the county. Worse still with so many votes people cannot be expected to make informed decisions and process all the available information, so people vote for all the wrong reasons.



    However, the Swiss system does try to create a democratic technocracy which is an amiable direction. It would perform better if the referendum details were worked out before the vote, other wise you end up with Brexit type scenarios. Actually a few years ago Switzerland had it own Brexit like vote to end FoM, the vote narrowly passed because of the aforementioned reasons and the usual fake news form the far right. But where the Swiss system comes in to its own, the result was largely ignored because the federal government could not maintain the EU relationship without FoM so the racists and ignorant were effectively ignored. The whole thing could have been handled at an earlier stage and the referendum not allowed to go through to the public though.

    The endless votes can also be replaced with wider use of opinion polling. This avoids the biases in voter turnout, and of course removes the burden from voter overload.
     
  18. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    Also jail for anyone who uses thier power to align policy for a favoured group. George Osbourne did this he was smarter than to take a open bribe. Instead after he quit they put on a dinner where he was a guest speaker for 80 elite bankers who paid £1000 a ticket his 20 minute speech earned him £80,000 pounds. Yet people here will work thier life for a mortage of a value like this. This is illegal bribery and you bet vote remain also had cushy EU jobs lined up. The king of this dirty tactic though is Tony Blair even recently he was giving pro EU speeches. It is corrupt this is why direct democracy is better than a corruptable party apprpach.


    Though i must say for direct democracy to work, Each person must have a legal requirement to vote on each issue no matter how many or inconvenient. It would in a way be illegal not to vote. This would fix a lot of issues like the Swiss one mentioned above.
     
  19. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,096

    Imagine the uproar if that were proposed. Ironically many of my University educated "liberal" colleaguess don't think the untermenschen(sp?) should be allowed to vote as they are too uninformed. Imagine their horror if anyone who had met the appropriate service requirements could vote but they couldn't.
     
  20. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,214

    But you have countless views, and every single person will have a different set of views. Whatever you do you cannot collect every single unique view and govern a country that pleases everyone. All you can ever do is vote for politicians that represent a broad set of views.


    I agree that parties are a problem and ideally they woudln't exist. A technocracy with a sufficient democracy and checks and balances in place would be best.