how the US dealt with 9/11

cm1179 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:11

anyone see question time last night? some very refreshing views i thought

one member of the panel compared how the US dealt with the terrorists and how the UK dealt with its terrorist threats in the past, namely the IRA.

it was pointed out that the UK did not go and bomb areas where potential IRA members may be.

how did the US deal with 9/11 though? there's been that much over the past 10 years with iraq and afghanistan that i have actually lost my recallation of what the US did. i remember they went searching for womd, even though there had been intelligence saying that they would not find any and it turns out that, that intelligence was accurate.

do you think the US did the right thing or was it a massive knee jerk reaction that now looks like one massive mistake? do you feel safer as a resident of where you live or would you rather things were handled differently?

Edrof · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:13

I don't think 9/11 was a government conspiracy, but I do think the big guys with huge stakes in arms dealing were rubbing their hands in glee, and I do think Bush was in their pockets.

I mean, the guy couldn't tie his shoelaces by himself. All total conjecture, of course, based upon my natural flair for cynicism.

Neil79 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:13

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18316259

Too many 9/11 threads ahhhh lol

cm1179 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:14

Neil79 said:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18316259

that's asking what i was doing when it happened, 10 yrs ago. this is me asking for peoples reflections on how things have been handled with 10 years of experience of the effects. not the same things.

Brian8bit · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:15

The UK might not have gone in bombing. Instead they had Operation Banner, Operation Motorman and internment (Long Kesh / Guantanamo). And the only place more militarised during the height of the troubles was the Korean border.

Amp34 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:15

They used it as an excuse to do what they wanted to do. Afghanistan less so but certainly Iraq. I'm not suggesting there was any conspiracy about the actual attack though, just the aftermath (in part due to a religious zealot in power thinking he was doing good).

MooMoo444 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:16

Things are largely for the better now, it's definitely not something that would happen again with improvements to airport security.

Part of me feels that they should just let it die and stop having anniversaries and reminding everyone. Everytime its brought up, it's like advertisement for the people who did it.

Edrof · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:17

So, what has happened to Iraq's oil? Privatised and taken over by companies that are sympathetic to the US?

Glaucus · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:17

Not sure IRA is very compatible. It was within our country.

As to did they do the right thing yes and no.
I think we had the right to invade Afghanistan and the initial attack was well planned and carried out. The utter lack of planning what to do after was a massive mistake.
I also think the world has changed in the last couple of decades, its become smaller and I no longer think we can just leave countries to do what they want and say a few thousand miles makes it non of our business. But onto of that I think the UN should be much more involved and actually grow a spine, ATM they are a pointless entity. Which is a shame as I think it should be united nations who should the police the world and it should be policing the world. we need to come together much more as humanity.

As to safer I don't feel safer or worse, but then Im very statistical and the chances of being in a terrorist attack is pretty much zero. So many other greater risks it doesn't come into it.

Also I wouldn't include Iraq as a result of 9/11 although GB did throw some silly terrorist comments about. That was a regime change, as his advisors and joint chiefs said a d had been on the cards for decades. Although I suppose with out 9/11 it would have been harder to justify it.

Edrof · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:18

MooMoo444 said:
Things are largely for the better now, it's definitely not something that would happen again with improvements to airport security.

Part of me feels that they should just let it die and stop having anniversaries and reminding everyone. Everytime its brought up, it's like advertisement for the people who did it.

Americans will never stop reliving it, not necessarily for the right reasons.

Amp34 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:18

Brian8bit said:
The UK might not have gone in bombing. Instead they had Operation Banner and internment (Long Kesh / Guantanamo). And the only place more militarised during the height of the troubles was the Korean border.

tbh though the attack on Iraq in retaliation for the WTC was like us attacking France. We would have had more legitimacy attacking the US east coast during the troubles (supplying money and arms) than the us had attacking Iraq IMO.

cm1179 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:18

MooMoo444 said:
Part of me feels that they should just let it die and stop having anniversaries and reminding everyone. Everytime its brought up, it's like advertisement for the people who did it.

this was another point. it was commented on that the event had been not so much 'hyped' but certainly glorified in a certain way. a difficult one as something like this will always hold attention but the way things had been done ran the risk of glorifying what was quite easily, al qaeda's (for lack of a better phrase) showcase.

Glaucus · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:20

Forde said:
So, what has happened to Iraq's oil? Privatised and taken over by companies that are sympathetic to the US?

Nope, not unless china is sympathetic to us,

Brian8bit · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:23

Amp34 said:
tbh though the attack on Iraq in retaliation for the WTC was like us attacking France. We would have had more legitimacy attacking the US east coast during the troubles (supplying money and arms) than the us had attacking Iraq IMO.

The money came from Irish America. The weapons from there dried up in the 80s after George Harrison was arrested by the FBI. Most of what was then sourced came from Libya and Eastern Europe. What most famously did get through from America was the Barret rifles used by the Armagh sniper.

cm1179 · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:26

Brian8bit said:
The money came from Irish America. The weapons from there dried up in the 80s after George Harrison was arrested by the FBI. Most of that was then sourced came from Libya and Eastern Europe. What most famously did get through from America was the Barret rifles used by the Armagh sniper.

this is another (fact?) that i find a little eye opening. not only were a lot of funds given to the IRA from US residents, the womd's that the US were looking for had apparently been sold and supplied by the US. if anyone knows of and reputable sources to read up on this, i would be grateful.

Edrof · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:30

AcidHell2 said:
Nope, not unless china is sympathetic to us,

Interesting, how the yanks let that happen?!

Danthus · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:35

Brian8bit said:
The UK might not have gone in bombing. Instead they had Operation Banner, Operation Motorman and internment (Long Kesh / Guantanamo). And the only place more militarised during the height of the troubles was the Korean border.

You can not compare Long Kesh with Guantanamo Bay!

El_Commi · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:39

AcidHell2 said:
Not sure IRA is very compatible. It was within our country.

That's debatable

On topic; there was a fantastic article in this weeks New Statesman that made the suggestion the western response to 9/11 was over the top to try and maintain control of a dwindling empire.

http://www.newstatesman.com/global-issues/2011/09/afghanistan-iraq-west-world

Al-Jazeera also had some interesting things to say;

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201181562044223125.html#.TmkIk5yOfyI.facebook

Brian8bit · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:39

cm1179 said:
this is another (fact?) that i find a little eye opening. not only were a lot of funds given to the IRA from US residents, the womd's that the US were looking for had apparently been sold and supplied by the US. if anyone knows of and reputable sources to read up on this, i would be grateful.

John Lennon famously offered to sing for the IRA to raise money for their "cause". Terri Hooley of Northern Ireland punk fame got into a fight with John Lennon because of his Republican sympathies. Also, google NORAID.

Brian8bit · 9 Sep 2011 at 13:42

OldCoals said:
You can not compare Long Kesh with Guantanamo Bay!

Operation Demetrius (or internment as it is more commonly known) began in Northern Ireland on the morning of Monday 9 August 1971. Operation Demetrius was launched by the British Army and Royal Ulster Constabulary and involved arresting and interning (without trial) people accused of being paramilitary members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius

Sounds pretty much like it. The mistake the British made was not flying them out of the country on secret flights to foreign jails and torturing them out there.