How to get into the IT Industry

Sin_Chase said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but DBA is not that big of a jump from 1st Line unless it's very high level DBA stuff, and that's less administrative and more design.
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Well that will depend on the organisation, in this instance it is a massively different role to first line:) personally hate the pigeon holing of roles into these generic job titles and lines, but saying DNA was the best fit to explain the role really.

A career in IT is what you make of it but you have to be prepared to go out there and push yourself to do the things you want to do. It's not going to be handed to you on a plate, I know far too many people who think they are owed something and will just sit there plodding along.

Housey your words above ring very true to me and sound a lot like how it's been for me so far :)
 
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Ev0 said:
A career in IT is what you make of it but you have to be prepared to go out there and push yourself to do the things you want to do. It's not going to be handed to you on a plate, I know far too many people who think they are owed something and will just sit there plodding along.
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Spot on, as I said above.
 
JayMax said:
I usually just observe these threads - but this one has encompassed the black and white of the pro v anti IT career ethos.
There's a whole bunch of people out there who like to complain and moan about their IT career going nowhere. I always wonder about what jobs these people do..... And why they don't move on?
There's a few of us who make a good living and enjoy their work - but the key is to look after Number 1, and I personally run the 2 year rule. I could ramble one more and digress, but a career in IT is exactly what you make of it. The more you put in the more you'll get out of it. In fact, it's probably a decent gig, as there's so many moaners who don't look after their own career and sit there whinging - it gives you an advantage!
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I agree with this to an extent, however I do believe that location also plays a large part. To excel in the IT industry you have to be working at the right places. Thankfully for me, Cambridge is full of high tech companies and jobs are quite frequently advertised.

I also abide by the 2 year rule, consequently I've gone from support > sysadmin > datacenter engineer quite quickly.

Ev0 said:
A career in IT is what you make of it but you have to be prepared to go out there and push yourself to do the things you want to do. It's not going to be handed to you on a plate, I know far too many people who think they are owed something and will just sit there plodding along.
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Completely agree. It definitely a profession where if you want to progress and move on to bigger and better things you have to be assertive, willing, and hard working.
 
Location does play a part, but again it depends on the person as to whether you let that 'beat' you or not.

I live in a part of the country where decent it jobs are reasonably few and far between.

My choices have been to settle for something close or to push out further to do what I want.

So in the past when I was made redundant from a very cushy job here I've took a perm role that meant living away from home 4 nights a week, at my own expense, effectively earning at the time around a quarter to a third less than I had been to be able to do a role I wanted.

12 months on from that and that sacrifice at the time has paved the way for where I am today (headhunted twice in a year lol), in a role that apart from usually 1 night a week away paid for by the company I'm working from home the rest of the time.

Yet I know many others who have the mentality of I can only look for jobs in my town and refuse to go elsewhere, then moan that there's no jobs, or they wish they could do something else. They could fix that but they won't.
 
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Sadly most people in business find many other reasons than the real ones for why they aren't the CEO but usually seem to know better in their own mind about how a business should be run even from their usually incredibly insular view of it.
 
tidusjar said:
Guys I need a bit of help getting into the IT industry, not web design or programming but general IT.

Any advice?
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Yes. Don't do "general" IT. Pick something specialised and what you find interesting. You'll probably need to do some time in 1st/2nd line support but that's not something you want as a career. Even if you think you like computers - its soul destroying.
 
Ev0 said:
I know far too many people who think they are owed something and will just sit there plodding along.
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you're spot on about the first bit. The amount of IT people I see with a chip on their shoulder is silly. However as for coasting along, well nothing wrong with that if the pays good and the hours short. Work to live not live to work!
 
pingwing said:
The only advice I ever got from dad was "don't for the love of god get a job in IT, do anything else, anything! IT moves faster than you, no matter how hard you try you cannot win"

Overall I doubt my dads opinions on 100 different things (he was very wrong and we never told him) but on this I think he probably was right, especially after seeing a few friends experiences...
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interfaces change for the sake of perceived upgrades most stuff is easy ... as long as you understand the concepts behind it

most stuff I learned 15 years ago still helps today... everything is now just slower bigger and more complex (but most of the more complex stuff you don't care about)
 
LordSplodge said:
you're spot on about the first bit. The amount of IT people I see with a chip on their shoulder is silly. However as for coasting along, well nothing wrong with that if the pays good and the hours short. Work to live not live to work!
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Yup I meant it as the two together, just plodding along is fine if you're happy with it and the money hours etc are good, what I was doing before the gov shut our place down :)

My point was more to say that know of far too many people who are happy enough to moan about things but not do anything about it.
 
Ev0 said:
Yup I meant it as the two together, just plodding along is fine if you're happy with it and the money hours etc are good, what I was doing before the gov shut our place down :)

My point was more to say that know of far too many people who are happy enough to moan about things but not do anything about it.
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I'm not saying anything about my cushy Government job. Oh no. :D

I agree with you, even people with a (relatively) easy job in our IT Department seem to moan about their job and then do nothing about it. Makes me cross.
 
edscdk said:
interfaces change for the sake of perceived upgrades most stuff is easy ... as long as you understand the concepts behind it

most stuff I learned 15 years ago still helps today... everything is now just slower bigger and more complex (but most of the more complex stuff you don't care about)
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Exactly. Database theory, programming theory, How computers work is essentially all the same as it was when I did a comp Science degree in the stone age.
 
It's a painfully weird industry to be honest.

I won't go into more details as I can't exactly find the words for it. Mostly a lack of understanding from managers who happen to be 'non-technical' and the occasional ass-hat whom is 'better' than you as he knows 'X' technology yet you're fully skilled in 'Y', which said person is equally clueless at.
 
ots3go said:
It's a painfully weird industry to be honest.

I won't go into more details as I can't exactly find the words for it. Mostly a lack of understanding from managers who happen to be 'non-technical' and the occasional ass-hat whom is 'better' than you as he knows 'X' technology yet you're fully skilled in 'Y', which said person is equally clueless at.
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You see, you demonstrate my point amply. A lack of understanding manager is more often than not a person with a broader perspective who's decision needs your 5% of the picture to help form a much bigger decision. People don't get it right all the time of course and we all know poor management exists, but such comments are the things I hear often from people who only have 5% of the information needed to make the bigger decision, only have a small idea of the other dependencies that impact on a decision or often think their domain is the centre of everything where more often than not it's no more than a consideration in the bigger view.
 
Basher said:
Apprenticeship. Much more valuable IMO than a degree.
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When it comes to securing a good role, the ability to interview very well is more value than both in my opinion yet so many students simply think the degree means more. When everyone else around you has similar qualifications their value is hugely diminished but when most of the people around you are utterly useless when it comes to being interviewed, getting this perfect will make you really stand out as someone employable.

Of course if you're stupid you wont last a week but REALLY work at that interview technique and your communication skills, even if you are a developer or similar FREAK ;). If you can't sell yourself all the qualifications in the world will be wasted and please, don't think your education puts you above all that 'superficial' stuff because if you do you are a well educated idiot.

I should charge for this sort of advice, can someone write me an app or something. Only beardies with 1 trillion IQ's need apply.
 
Housey said:
When it comes to securing a good role, the ability to interview very well is more value than both in my opinion yet so many students simply think the degree means more. When everyone else around you has similar qualifications their value is hugely diminished but when most of the people around you are utterly useless when it comes to being interviewed, getting this perfect will make you really stand out as someone employable.

Of course if you're stupid you wont last a week but REALLY work at that interview technique and your communication skills, even if you are a developer or similar FREAK ;). If you can't sell yourself all the qualifications in the world will be wasted and please, don't think your education puts you above all that 'superficial' stuff because if you do you are a well educated idiot.

I should charge for this sort of advice, can someone write me an app or something. Only beardies with 1 trillion IQ's need apply.
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Absolutely. Apprenticeships give you a great opportunity to gain some credibility and real world exposure. When I graduated, everyone seemed to think that they were owed something, like they would walk into a senior role instantly.

Think outside the box, use your contacts, network, get some exposure and learn what really makes businesses work.
 
Housey said:
Of course if you're stupid you wont last a week but REALLY work at that interview technique and your communication skills, even if you are a developer or similar FREAK ;). If you can't sell yourself all the qualifications in the world will be wasted and please, don't think your education puts you above all that 'superficial' stuff because if you do you are a well educated idiot.
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I know the comment about developers being freaks is tongue in cheek, but I just want to emphasise that IMO communication skills are vitally important for any developer these days.
Being a code monkey won't cut it any more with off-shore developers being able to do that stuff at a fraction of the price.

I've interviewed many people over the years, often for pretty high end dev jobs and it's amazing how many people are unable to express themselves coherently in an interview.
Everyone gets nervous and is under pressure, but you've still got to be able to communicate with the interviewer.
I've interviewed so many people who have glittering CVs and look great on paper, but fall down in a face to face interview situation.
 
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