Hybrid Office 365/On Site Server

satanicguardian · 21 Apr 2015 at 15:12

Hi guys, I was looking for some advice with regards to one of my customers.

About a year ago I moved them onto an office 365 solution which was purely reliant on cloud/internet connectivity. It worked fine to start with but it soon became apparent that their ADSL connection was not sufficient to support them and it costs and arm and a leg to get a leased line into their office.

The main sticking point is that this company uses a lot of auto cad, DWG, large images and PDF's, meaning that there are considerable delays trying to open these files from sharepoint, and even more so trying to upload them.

I was looking at setting up a small in house server for hosting their large amounts of data so it can be accessed, edited and saved very quickly, but also have some kind of failover/failsafe backup as their documents are vital to everything they do! I was thinking perhaps integrating it with the existing sharepoint online, but the issue with that is that their internet still isn't really ideal for support an offsite back. Perhaps a manual offsite back up (External HDD weekly?)

In short, I need some recommendation on the sort of hardware/software/structure that would work best for them. At present they have standalone PC's that log directly onto themselves and gather everything else via office 365, would a fileserver require them to have to log onto a domain? I'd rather keep the emails in the cloud if possible, not a fan of offline exchange!

Thanks in advance!

Jamie

Madmrcopper · 21 Apr 2015 at 16:20

Jamie,

Coming from a large Architectural practice and having great experience in SharePoint (hosted internally) I would never recommend putting in live CAD drawings, either Autodesk or Bentley, into that environment. So the same could be said about hosted SharePoint too.

SharePoint should handle there image database brilliantly and PDF as long as the detail isn't too high so producing very large PDF.

Setup a local DC and FS. Sync it with 365 so using the same logons and still keep exchange hosted with Microsoft.

Backup look at either tape or 3rd party hosted solution that sync over night.

Ultimately its going to cost them, Architecture IT is never cheap!

Madmrcopper · 21 Apr 2015 at 16:26

Jamie, Just a thought as I was walking back from the Kitchen. If you wanted the data to stay hosted you should look at Autodesk 360 as a solution. It will handle the CAD/Project data much better than SharePoint could.

satanicguardian · 21 Apr 2015 at 16:29

Hi mate, I should have mentioned that the CAD stuff wasn't the majority of anything, it's MOSTLY giant pdf's (and lots of them) I just wanted to move this large quantity of data onto something that would provide faster access, I don't want to overcomplicate if I can avoid it!

Madmrcopper · 21 Apr 2015 at 16:40

Jamie,

The giant PDF really are not going to help. Might be worth speaking to them about the level of details. Architects like to put the most detail they can on it, down to the thread on a screw. This will just balloon the size of the PDF and as my CAD manager mate said to our users "hairy assed builders don't give a dam about that level of detail"

Biz.Kid09 · 21 Apr 2015 at 17:02

Something like a HP MicroServer? could fill it with a few terabytes of hard drives and connect it to the local network and they can save all their files to this server?

You could setup individual folders for private files for each user, folders for files which are public and so on.
In terms of access speed depending on budget you could utilise SSD's, running CAT6 cables and so forth and this would be very quick and reliable.

You can set up RAID as an onsite backup solution, put in place a system where it backs up to SharePoint every so often and also put in place as you say a system which images the main hard drives to an external which is kept offsite.

Keep your email's and so on in the cloud with office 365 but just use this system for the files.

satanicguardian · 21 Apr 2015 at 17:26

Biz.Kid09 said:
Something like a HP MicroServer? could fill it with a few terabytes of hard drives and connect it to the local network and they can save all their files to this server?

You could setup individual folders for private files for each user, folders for files which are public and so on.
In terms of access speed depending on budget you could utilise SSD's, running CAT6 cables and so forth and this would be very quick and reliable.

You can set up RAID as an onsite backup solution, put in place a system where it backs up to SharePoint every so often and also put in place as you say a system which images the main hard drives to an external which is kept offsite.

Keep your email's and so on in the cloud with office 365 but just use this system for the files.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking, I could quite easily do a custom server build myself surely - I don't think it's going to need a huge amount of processing power since it will just be used to transfer data, perhaps a high quality NIC card, a fast 1TB ssd + a WD Green or something as a mirror on site?

Basically I need the most reliable yet quick system for the users to open, modify and save documents whilst the documents are still safe and backed up, there's so many options!

satanicguardian · 21 Apr 2015 at 17:47

Madmrcopper said:
Jamie,

The giant PDF really are not going to help. Might be worth speaking to them about the level of details. Architects like to put the most detail they can on it, down to the thread on a screw. This will just balloon the size of the PDF and as my CAD manager mate said to our users "hairy assed builders don't give a dam about that level of detail"

Sorry just seen this! It's not so much building they do, I'm not even sure how to describe it.. it's kind of planning, budgeting and installing fittings for kitchens, hotels, restaurants etc and evaluating health and safety, hence blueprints and lots of pdfs and images

Biz.Kid09 · 21 Apr 2015 at 19:31

satanicguardian said:
This is more along the lines of what I was thinking, I could quite easily do a custom server build myself surely - I don't think it's going to need a huge amount of processing power since it will just be used to transfer data, perhaps a high quality NIC card, a fast 1TB ssd + a WD Green or something as a mirror on site?

Basically I need the most reliable yet quick system for the users to open, modify and save documents whilst the documents are still safe and backed up, there's so many options!

A microserver really will meet your needs I reckon mate, no need for a custom setup unless of course you want to get your hands dirty and its always nice to build a new server/pc. It will deal quite well with file sharing of this kind, you can always upgrade the CPU if you really require.
It already has a pretty good NIC and dual gigabit ports.

Well depending on budget using 1tb SSD as the file storage would be ideal for speed, perhaps even two and RAID them. Then as you say have them backup to a WD Green onsite and then have a large drive that can be kept offsite.

A good balanced option could be,
Small SSD for the OS. Two 512gb/1tb SSD in RAID 1 and then have a 3tb RED/Green as an immediate backup. The 3tb is then backed up to an external drive and kept offsite. You can also set the 3tb to backup to Sharepoint/Crashplan or whatever at night time or something for added backup.

You can't really get more reliable then the HP MicroServer, could always get the extra 3yr warranty for extra peace of mind.

Caged · 21 Apr 2015 at 20:10

Regardless of what you do in terms of on-premise upgrades, that business will be severely restricted by the insistence on keeping the ADSL line - no offsite backup, no ability to really share large drawings/renders with clients, suppliers etc.

Decent leased lines are under £400 a month now, an architecture firm can afford one. They won't want to pay that much for one, but they can afford it. Your licensing costs in Exchange, Windows Server, CALs, plus the hardware depreciated over the term of the warranty aren't going to be a huge saving over a proper internet connection.

lumencreative · 22 Apr 2015 at 10:10

We put in a network for a local charity about a year ago now, which consisted of a HP ML110 G7 Server (just a standard server with a Pentium Dual Core CPU and 8GB Ram).

We installed Windows Server 2012 Essentials on the server to act as the Active Dircetory/Fileserver which was really simple to configure and also integrates with Office365 so if you create an account on the server it automatically creates the new Office365 account with the appropriate license and access rights that you choose.

We also configured the server for VPN access but as they couldn't get a static IP address, this was never used as the IP address changed regularly.

This setup is still working and working quite well, but for large files, I would definitely recommend that you ensure everything is CAT-5e at least.

Madmrcopper · 22 Apr 2015 at 12:12

Sorry just seen this! It's not so much building they do, I'm not even sure how to describe it.. it's kind of planning, budgeting and installing fittings for kitchens, hotels, restaurants etc and evaluating health and safety, hence blueprints and lots of pdfs and images

Morning Jamie,

Does type of drawings are standard in a architectural practice, they be all sorts of drawing from 1:50, 1:200 and down to drawings of specific fittings. I expect what they have done is just import the DWG issued by manufactures which will have a high level of detail by default. Also just check to see compression levels they are using to produce the PDF are set right, you could save a bit there. If cash is a issue and they dont want to spend money the best things is for them to look out there internal processes first. Having files at that level of detail is just a over head because someone has to draw/import that detail in the first place and also wait for them to process.

Regardless of what you do in terms of on-premise upgrades, that business will be severely restricted by the insistence on keeping the ADSL line - no offsite backup, no ability to really share large drawings/renders with clients, suppliers etc.

Decent leased lines are under £400 a month now, an architecture firm can afford one. They won't want to pay that much for one, but they can afford it. Your licensing costs in Exchange, Windows Server, CALs, plus the hardware depreciated over the term of the warranty aren't going to be a huge saving over a proper internet connection.

Caged is fully right too, ideally they do need a minimum of a SDSL solution rather than as ASDL especially if they want to keep a hosted solution. You need to remember its just not large amounts of data they are downloading but also uploading back into the hosted solution. Cash maybe a issue at the moment as the industry is recovering but it will help the business to grow and develop.

Hardware wise I do think people comments are under underestimating whats required for Architecture. If you want something local going forward buy them a decent server with a decent level of hardware support. The go with either something like the ML110 suggested above or something from Dell or even Overclockers them selves. Make sure they have decent hard drives, the Green suggested are not adequate and you should be looking at Business/NAS grade ones that are 10k rpm at least. Have seen servers with only 7.2k and less and they have run really poorly and have had staff moan about access speeds. Personal preference is 15k SAS minimum but I had a lot of users per site (30+).

Make sure they are at least Raid-5 for resilience and its useful to turn shadow copies on as architects are always making mistakes/deleting stuff they shouldn't have. But none of this is a substitute for a proper backup. Biz.Kid09 suggested using Crashplan (couldn't remember its name yesterday afternoon) earlier is great idea if you get there internet line sorted so it can handle the data.

Really its going to cost more money either way. You haven't said how many members of staff there are? I guess not large at all because most practices are not.

My personal preference after sleeping on it would be to invest in better lines and look at using something like AutoDesk 360 to host the data as its designed to handle the Architects data better than Sharepoint. Also I think it be the cheaper option. 360 would be OPex rather than CAPex and require less changes to the environment.

Felix · 22 Apr 2015 at 12:49

Have they looked at EFM or EoFFTC for their line?

nutcase · 22 Apr 2015 at 14:04

Does seem rather strange to host offsite critical data/applications and only have ADSL.

EFM with carrier diverse ADSL would be a minimum for that?

ashrobbo · 22 Apr 2015 at 18:31

Server 2012 r2 essentials along with the existing office365 solution is the best fit.

I wouldn't put a microserver in if their data and uptime is as critical as you say, fine for labs and very small non critical stuff but for mission critical stuff get a proper server atleast with Dual PSU - ask them how much it would cost them to be without those files for a day, you'll find its thousands and spending a few grand on a decent server is then a non-issue.

Backups to a NAS/USB or both. Nice quick access to CAD files, and email is all taken acre off.

Another ADSL line or other line for redundancy into some sort of draytek/another multi wan router.

Dont try to cloud large PDF's, its not going to go well.