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I cant drive using a wheel and pedals for Toffee!!

Discussion in 'Gaming Peripherals' started by beany_bot, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. beany_bot

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 19, 2015

    Posts: 2,407

    Location: Glasgow Area

    So I have an Dirt rally and Project Cars 2 and I just got an Oculus rift. Obviously very exciting. And obviously for immersion the controller has to go.

    So I got a logitech G27 setup from the MM.

    Thing is... I'm AWFUL. like terrible. I cant drive for toffee! Is this normal?

    I mean IRL I am confident I am a good driver, I've been driving for 20 years and have won a couple of amateur races at Knockhill in different classes. But I feel like such a noob using the wheel in games. I spin out constantly, lock up the brakes and am generally rubbish. I can't pinpoint why. Is it just because I'm not used to it? I kind of assumed that I would be instantly better than a gamepad because, well, it's more realistic. Is it because their is no fear?

    Do I just need to stick with it?
  2. Hedge


    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 16,619

    Location: Up Norf 2 Daan Saaf

    I was pretty bad at Dirt Rally initially. The key with that game is to slow right down. Your first priority should be to get to end of course without coming off too much. Then once you have it complete increase your speed a touch.

    Avoid having your foot to the floor until you are more dialled in. Also with Dirt rally you need only very small wheel inputs a lot of the time. It doesn't need to move full lock often on many courses.
  3. beany_bot

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 19, 2015

    Posts: 2,407

    Location: Glasgow Area

    Even project cars 2 though. I can't even get a 1600 MK1 escort round a track lol. Whereas I know I can easily do that IRL.
  4. wesimmo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 1,311

    I find it difficult as you don't get the physical feedback you do in real life.

    Changing gear for example, it's less about the rev counter, I can just feel when I'm at the redline in real life, in games I have to watch more to make sure I don't bounce off the limiter.

    That feeling you get in real life when you're on the edge of grip and you balance the steering and throttle, force feedback will never replicate that entirely.

    You just need to learn the physical feedback from the Sim set up versus what you know in real life which will only come with experience.
  5. crinkleshoes


    Joined: Jun 9, 2009

    Posts: 10,806

    Location: 720S, M4 or SR3

    I find it difficult too... didn't realise how much I drive with my butt until I tried playing games.

    VR helps thanks to the improved perception of speed... but it's still not there.
  6. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,334

    I blame the Logitech wheel. I received a Thrustmaster TMX that is a budget version of the TX wheel. It was a bit naff with regards to the plastic and rubber trim and the mechanism was not as good as a TX.

    I ended up returning it due to a blown cooling fan causing a terrible whining noise.

    After that I bought the Logitech G920 which has the same mechanism to the G27. It is nowhere near as accurate as the budget Thrustmaster in my opinion.

    But with a wheel and pedals you need to readjust your driving style. You've been used to a controller and the way you can easily flick an analogue stick from left to right.

    You should take time to learn to drive again image racing game. Pick a slow front wheel drive car in PCars and just get used to driving around and using the gears. Set faster and faster lap times. Eventually you will start getting quicker, you'll match your controller times and then you will eventually start beating them.
  7. beany_bot

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 19, 2015

    Posts: 2,407

    Location: Glasgow Area

    I think it's down to the vagueness of a PC compared to real life. As mentioned not being able to "feel" the grip, the engine and the g forces. In a real car on a racetrack you can very very quickly find it's limits of grip and breaking distances. As it slips the tiniest bit you know it. but in a game, it really needs to slide a lot before you know it's happened. FF no matter how good doesnt resolve this issue. And braking, you just dont get the forces involved and its so easy to over break. Anyway, I'm sure practice will help dial it in. Just hope it doesn't make me a crappy driver IRL!
  8. olivier renault


    Joined: Apr 1, 2009

    Posts: 9,819

    It takes a (little) while to switch from controller to wheel.

    And you shouldn't expect it to be like driving a car down the road. There's no feedback apart from the wheel, and the wheel feedback takes getting used to, and feels ... weird.

    The pedals also are poor analogs of the real thing, but you get used to it as well.
  9. Westie


    Joined: Jan 21, 2003

    Posts: 6,668

    Location: Torquay - Devon

    For dirt rally change ya wheel rotation to 360 or 520.. will help alot..

    900 wheel rotation for dirt rally is way to much as I gather your running default wheel settings
  10. Telecaster


    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,473

    Sounds like the same issue I had, the first problem I think is expecting to be any good at a game based on RL driving. They're about as realistic as playing some sci-fi spaceship flying sim lol.

    I think it's just a case of getting used to a wheel for games, you'll never replicate the butt dyno and physical feedback from real track driving experience.
  11. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 55,880

    I found Grid and the Dirt games to be very fussy about wheel - a lot you'd end up either super sensitive or super un-sensitive no matter the settings :(

    Not really spent a lot of time with project cars so can't comment on that but play a lot of Assetto Corsa and despite having the wheel dialed in pretty well I don't find the physics model reflects real life - understeer tends to be quite exaggerated especially with automatic gears - I've driven some of the tracks IRL with moderately performing cars way better than I can manage in AC.
  12. David230


    Joined: Dec 17, 2005

    Posts: 721

    It might just need a few tweaks here and there to make all the difference. Config or game settings or both..

    I found driving in assetto corsa actually helped with certain aspects of real life driving. The same way actually being let loose on a testing ground where you had space to make mistakes but learn as you go.
  13. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 55,880

    Possibly its a config issue - apparent AC also doesn't tend to like automatic gears with regard to grip - state my wheel is in I tend to use automatic.

    Some of the corners though on some tracks - I've entered at ~50mph IRL and the car has handled it fine - far more in the car infact than my level of skill while same car and track in AC anything more than 30mph and once you hit the apex you slide off one side irrespective of what you do. Last Christmas (2016) I had AC setup with the wheel on a projector as we had a few family over who are into fast cars and do track stuff fairly regular and they all commented on it as well - still possible its a configuration issue on my end but I've spent hours going over it trying all sorts.
  14. Parky

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 14, 2009

    Posts: 1,034

    Location: Burnley, Lancashire

    I'd echo the suggestions above, spend a little time tweaking your setup until you find something that feels a little better. Every game is different so don't expect to be able to transfer your skills straight away from one to another either. It can feel off putting at first, but once you start getting to grips with the feel of the game your enjoyment level will really increase.

    I really wouldn't worry about being unable to transfer your real world driving skill into the game, it doesn't really swing that way unless you are going for the die hard sims. The lack of feedback, fear factor and general sense of speed are always the biggest things that are hard to get your head around. Just take things slow and learn the basics again with slower, more manageable cars. You'll soon start developing the control and understanding of the physics for that particular game.

    I played Gran Turismo 5 loads when it was released, but never really pushed myself or delved into the tuning options, even though I had a wheel I still had to use all of the assists. When GT6 came along I really jumped in and learned to drive without assists, but also learned how to set up cars properly. It's probably the most dedicated I've been in a game, but I also had the most fun I think. I owe a lot of that to jumping into well disciplined multiplayer races, studying people's ghosts on time trials and generally reading into other people's setups for both their cars and sim setup, but also how they tackle each track with that setup.

    See if you can find any friendly groups to play with that have regular race nights, you'll be surprised by how much you will adapt and learn just by following others around the track, even If you do come last.
  15. Pyr0m@nI@]{


    Joined: Oct 31, 2005

    Posts: 487

    Location: Merseyside, UK

    I found exactly this on the weekend
    I'd bought a playseat challenge to be able to use an old Logitech dfgt wheel (wheel doesn't like my desk) in pcars2 and I suck at it, it's much easier on an xbox pad lol
    I'm going to stick with it for now, but I know the config needs changing as the wheel feels too heavy when steering.
  16. NirK


    Joined: Jun 22, 2012

    Posts: 3,415

    Location: UK

    I find the braking difficult with pedals, on the wheel I have it has a "conical brake mod", which makes braking more consistent, I also got a replacement rubber bit for it from ebay and its quite good now, although I guess a load cell would be better, but yes that's probably why you lock up the brakes because the G27 pedals do not have any resistance, I think you can get a load cell mod for the G27 pedals.

    Also try download custom FFB files for the games, some of them, cannot remember the name now, think it is jack spades FFB files, are quite a lot better than the default setup.
  17. NeverWinter


    Joined: Mar 25, 2003

    Posts: 5,229

    Location: Birmingham

    I now have the Fanatec CSR Elite pedals which have a load cell (which are great), I used to use a G25 and often found myself easily locking up the wheels. I installed the Nixim brake mod to them and found my braking became far better as you get a sense of when the lock-ups will occur from the pressure you apply rather than using distance with the standard setup.

    It is different to real life driving/racing as there is less feel (sound is an important factor in sim racing also), you will get better with practice, keep at it.
  18. Wiiispa


    Joined: Nov 9, 2011

    Posts: 91

    Location: Nr. Folkestone Kent

    Late reply but .... I have the G920 wheel for Dirt rally AC and iRacing. Sound is crucial for braking. I turn other sounds way down and have tyre noise up to hear wheel lock up better. The brake pedal on the G920 is total cr*p and the same can be said for the G27. Using VRS in iRacing it's easy to see that brake pedal response is way down on what it should be. 4 months solid practice in iRacing (1000's of laps) has improved matters but it's still only 50% of what it should be like. Overdriving is my biggest issue. In sims you really get punished for trying even an ounce too hard. Line and smoothness get rewarded. I'd love some Fanatec pedals but I'm more likely to get the Ricmotech loadcell mod for my G920 pedals as it's way more affordable.