I have children; and a religious wife and parents in law.

Associate
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Aren't you yourself indoctrinated to believe your way of life is superior to their belief...?

You can receive great value from religion without being a "zealot". Having you there to temper it and provide a more "grounded" view is excellent. Why not try to take the best from religion with it's positive morale framework, community, and social interaction from a young age while also providing scientific tools to help question what is a fable and what is real?
 
Soldato
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if you teach your kids to explore everything .. then let them make there own mind up ... everything will be fine ..

Most religiouns would die off if kids were taught critical thinking and left to make their own minds up at 16 / 18

You really need to indicate them from an early age to make sure they believe which ever made up book their parents believe
 
Soldato
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"give me a child when he's 7 and he's mine for life" - Ignatius Loyola

This is the bad side of 'religious education' and why I personally want to see church schools consigned to the bin
 
Soldato
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"give me a child when he's 7 and he's mine for life" - Ignatius Loyola

This is the bad side of 'religious education' and why I personally want to see church schools consigned to the bin

The same can apply to any form of indoctrination not just religious. eg Communism and the Party in China
 
Don
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What a completely ignorant statement. I don't know what school you went to but schools teach religious tolerance these days. As to why you think that is any different in Scotland, I don't know.

I'm not sure what nerve I've touched here, I wasn't referring to religion at all :p

PlacidCasual and Jokester picked up on my intent. I could have been clearer I suppose!

Agreed, as a teenager I had such a violently scientific anti-theist outlook that I truly threw the baby out with the bathwater. While I remain not religious, I find it impossible to avoid the truth some of these ancient stories speak. They can contain such profound meaning and offer insight in to finding one's own, something I feel the modern west could do with more of.

Get your children to question everything. Mainstream education already does some of this and the new curriculum in Scotland is good. Religion in Scotland can be toxic, especially in parts of the West of the country, but that is usually to do with the brand of fairy story to believe in. Education is the key and as for the usual bigotted views on Scottish education I suggest you go and educate yourself and stop believing the tales in your tabloid.

Agreed with the first part of your post completely. Questioning everything is key. I find I've even had to coach colleagues on this, how it skipped past the parents I have no idea. Is the second part of your post referring to me? I didn't know that people had "bigotted" views about religion in Scotland :confused:
 
Soldato
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I didn't know that people had "bigotted" views about religion in Scotland
The West coast of Scotland due to historical movement of people from N. Ireland has more religious bigots than any other area of the country. Orange marches etc. Only cities like Liverpool which again historically had a large Irish influx have OM. The seperate education system in Scotland with Catholic and Protestant schools dates back to the beginning of the last century. Bringing up sections of the population in different education modes inevitably leads to bigotry. It is getting better now but the problem will never go away until this practice is abolished.
 
Don
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The West coast of Scotland due to historical movement of people from N. Ireland has more religious bigots than any other area of the country. Orange marches etc. Only cities like Liverpool which again historically had a large Irish influx have OM. The seperate education system in Scotland with Catholic and Protestant schools dates back to the beginning of the last century. Bringing up sections of the population in different education modes inevitably leads to bigotry. It is getting better now but the problem will never go away until this practice is abolished.

That makes sense, thanks for educating me!
 
Associate
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Most religiouns would die off if kids were taught critical thinking and left to make their own minds up at 16 / 18

You really need to indicate them from an early age to make sure they believe which ever made up book their parents believe
lol why .. my son's a hard core atheist my daughter believes in the religion of hard cash .. me i'm an easy going born again Christian.. they need to explore there own life make there own choices there own failures.. i'll always be there to pick up the pieces :)
 
Soldato
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Agreed, as a teenager I had such a violently scientific anti-theist outlook that I truly threw the baby out with the bathwater. While I remain not religious, I find it impossible to avoid the truth some of these ancient stories speak. They can contain such profound meaning and offer insight in to finding one's own, something I feel the modern west could do with more of.

So you are arguing that a Scottish approach to moral education would be beneficial?

The processes associated with the idea of ‘personal search’ remain a key component of teaching and
learning in religious and moral education: children and young people must learn from religious beliefs as well
as learning about them. The context of study should encourage the development of a child or young person’s
own beliefs and values in addition to developing his or her knowledge and understanding of values, practices
and traditions. This can be achieved through consideration of, reflection upon and response to the
challenges presented by religious beliefs and values, and those which flow from viewpoints independent of
religious belief. A child or young person should be exploring his or her developing beliefs and values throughout the process
of learning in religious and moral education. This exploration should permeate learning and teaching, and
should take full account of the background, age and stage of the child or young person. Knowledge and
understanding are an essential element of this personal reflection and exploration but they are not its only
components. A learner may feel and express a sense of awe and wonder, may recognise patterns and order
in the world, may vigorously question sources, may be reflecting on relationships and values, and may have
begun to consider ultimate questions relating to meaning, value and purpose in life. The process of learning
must recognise this and start from where the child or young person is. As the child and young person learns and develops, the spiral, cyclical nature of this process is evident; accordingly, the framework of experiences and outcomes provides opportunities to visit and revisit issues as
this journey continues through life. (So, for example, a sense of awe and wonder is by no means limited to
any particular stage of life.) The development of a child or young person’s own beliefs and values is
therefore embedded in the framework, and activities relevant to and supportive of this will take place in the
context of exploring religions and viewpoints which are independent of religious belief. Teachers will
recognise that in this process of personal reflection not all children will adopt a religious standpoint.

source

religious and moral education, principles and paractice. Scot. Gov. U.K.

I think the way education works here is different to the way you imagine it to be.
 
Soldato
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The West coast of Scotland due to historical movement of people from N. Ireland has more religious bigots than any other area of the country. Orange marches etc. Only cities like Liverpool which again historically had a large Irish influx have OM. The seperate education system in Scotland with Catholic and Protestant schools dates back to the beginning of the last century. Bringing up sections of the population in different education modes inevitably leads to bigotry. It is getting better now but the problem will never go away until this practice is abolished.

You kinda smeared the important detail of that...

This arose out of returning soldiers and migrants from NI who would have originally descended from Scotland and the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/jun/21/liverpool-northernireland


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Orange_Lodge_of_Scotland
 
Caporegime
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Aren't you yourself indoctrinated to believe your way of life is superior to their belief...?

You can receive great value from religion without being a "zealot". Having you there to temper it and provide a more "grounded" view is excellent. Why not try to take the best from religion with it's positive morale framework, community, and social interaction from a young age while also providing scientific tools to help question what is a fable and what is real?


What positve moral frame work.

Bible supports slavery, domestic abuse, sexism, homophobia, murdering those you disagree with, murdering those of a different religion.


He'll the bible teaches God came down and made everyone have a different language because human race was too united and working together when they all spoke the same


It unsurprisingly has the moral frame work of the backwards savages who wrote it thousands of years ago
 
Soldato
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Don't worry about it, I attended Sunday school when I was younger, as soon as I was old enough to decide for myself I told them I wanted to stop going.
As long as you teach them that its all just stories and not true then they'll soon decide if they want to continue with it or not.
 
Soldato
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You kinda smeared the important detail of that...

This arose out of returning soldiers and migrants from NI who would have originally descended from Scotland and the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/jun/21/liverpool-northernireland


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Orange_Lodge_of_Scotland

The key part is the way the organization rose to prominence, which was due to Irish immigration in the 19th century (the famine etc). Also later fueled by a fear of revolution i.e the sons of 19th-century immigrants who took part in W.W.1 returning to the slums of Liverpool, Glasgow, and Manchester with little prospects in life.

Was a general state of paranoia that a left-wing republican revolt was imminent in the U.K. in the aftermath of W.W1. The solution was thought to be, more hate and a big stick.
 
Soldato
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lol why .. my son's a hard core atheist my daughter believes in the religion of hard cash .. me i'm an easy going born again Christian.. they need to explore there own life make there own choices there own failures.. i'll always be there to pick up the pieces :)

You obviously did not indoctrinate them and left them to make their own decisions, a majority of religious people obviously do indoctrinate
 
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